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Messages - wiglet

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Armed Forces / Re: Joseph Swales, formerly of the 8th Dragoons
« on: Saturday 06 July 13 12:52 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Ken - we had worked out that the information does tally with general historical facts, as the 8th Dragoons were still in India at this time.  I take it that the regiment must have had reinforcements shipped out from the UK from time to time, given that Joseph was too young to have enlisted in 1802, when they first went to India (and assuming he was born in Bedford or similar, rather than in India itself!).

Interesting also is that in their last few years in India and as a Dragoon regiment, they were under the command of Banastre Tarleton!

I've also wondered what crime a soldier would have need to have committed, to be transported for Life - disobeying orders, perhaps?  And would the trial in question have been a court martial?


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Armed Forces / Re: Joseph Swales, formerly of the 8th Dragoons
« on: Friday 05 July 13 14:06 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Maria - yes, I have all of Joseph's details off that site, and plenty more from local newspapers concerning his somewhat chequered career as a publican, both in New South Wales and South Australia. 

Unfortunately, because he chose to ultimately settle and die in SA, his official death details are rather lacking in detail (such as parents, etc).

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Armed Forces / Joseph Swales, formerly of the 8th Dragoons
« on: Friday 05 July 13 13:45 BST (UK)  »
I am wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction in finding some army service information concerning my husband's ancestor, Joseph Swales (sometimes spelt Swailes).

All the details we have concerning Joseph are from Australian records, starting with his transportation on the ship "Calder" from Calcutta to Sydney, arriving on 21 November 1822.  We know from subsequent convict musters that he was apparently in the 8th Dragoons, and was either a blacksmith or a farrier by trade.  According to the NSW Convict indents, he was tried at Fort William on the 30 October 1821, at which time he was 29 years of age (which would put his birth year at about 1792), and was sentenced to transportation for Life.  The indents also state that he originally came from Bedford.  He died in 1878 in Adelaide, South Australia, where his age was given as 92, which would correlate with a birth year of about 1786, so there is some leeway in the birth year there.

What I am wondering is if there is any way of finding out more about his military service without to going to the UK National Archives in person, to look up muster and payrolls and the like - we are in Australia, so there's a slight tyranny of distance issue going on with that  :).  Or is there a kind soul out there with the time and inclination to go and look up his records for us?

Thanks

Jenny


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Hi Sue,

Yes, can give you the children's names and details - I just wasn't sure about how much information you were after on the Patterson branch (can do 4 more generations past that as well, if you are interested - just depends on how much branching you want!).

i.   JESSIE LILLIAN PATTERSON, was born 26 Jun 1892 at Lyle Street, Warracknabeal, VIC, AUS, and died 11 Apr 1964 in Heidelberg, VIC, AUS.  She married GEORGE THOMAS KINGSTON CROCKFORD, 7 Mar 1923 in Warracknabeal, VIC, AUS, son of GEORGE WILLIAM CROCKFORD and ELLEN FURBER BURCOMBE.  He was born 27 Sep 1890 in Mailors Flat, VIC, AUS, and died 19 Oct 1950, Warracknabeal, VIC, AUS

ii.  FLORENCE CHARLOTTE PATTERSON, was born 1894 in Warracknabeal, VIC, AUS, and died Dec 1987 in Stawell, VIC, AUS.  She married WILLIAM TANGEY, 1913 in VIC, AUS, son of WILLIAM TANGEY and ELIZABETH JAMIESON.  He was born 1887 in Stawell, VIC, AUS, and died 1965 in Ballarat, VIC, AUS.

iii.  ELIZABETH OLIVE PATTERSON, was born 1896 in Warracknabeal, VIC, AUS, died 6 Jul 1905 in Warracknabeal, VIC, AUS, and was buried 9 Jul 1905 in Warracknabeal Cemetery, Warracknabeal, VIC, AUS.

iv. EVA-ANNIE PATTERSON, was born 1898 in Warracknabeal, VIC, AUS, and died 24 Feb 1995 at Sunnyside Lutheran Rest Home, Horsham, VIC, AUS.  She married WALTER JACOB HOOPER, 1921 in Warracknabeal, VIC, AUS, son of JOHN HOOPER and ELIZA WILLOUGHBY.  He was born 1883 in Nhill, VIC, AUS, and died 1941 in Horsham, VIC, AUS.

v.   MARY ANN PATTERSON, was born 1900 in Warracknabeal, VIC, AUS, and died 1959 in Colac, VIC, AUS.  She married JAMES HIGGINS.

vi.   SYDNEY THOMAS WILLIAM PATTERSON, was born 15 Aug 1904 at 341 Cleveland Street, Darlington, Municipality of Redfern, NSW, AUS, and died 19 Jul 1942 in Adelaide River, NT, AUS.  He married (1) CATHERINE MARTIN, 1926 in VIC, AUS, daughter of JAMES MAXWELL MARTIN and JESSIE BALDWIN.  She was born 1906 in Landsborough, VIC, AUS, and died 1939 in Prahran, VIC, AUS.  He married (2) JANET ASH, Jan 1942 in VIC, AUS, daughter of WILLIAM ASH and FRANCES VIGAR.  She was born 1906 in Lake Boga, VIC, AUS, and died in 1985 in Swan Hill, VIC, AUS.

All the descendants are pretty much located in the Wimmera area, still, except for Syd's, who were in Swan Hill (he died in a truck accident while on active service in WWII, leaving behind his new second wife who was pregnant at the time, his first wife having died in childbirth, which has tragic parallels with his own childhood).

Will PM you some other info shortly.

Regards

Jenny


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Hi Sue,

Thanks for your prompt reply.

It is very interesting to find out that Elizabeth Mason had other family in Australia, other than her husband and children.  I have been able to find English Census info about her parents and siblings, but nothing more than that, and certainly not a thing about their descendants.

There are a few other Patterson researchers out there, and the information is fairly extensive on that side of the family (the fact that they didn't move around quite so much makes things easier in that respect, as well, but sometimes the challenge is half the fun, isn't it?).

I will get my minimum number of posts done ASAP, so that we can then exchange messages on this.

Regards

Jenny




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Thomas Bennett McBeth/MacBeth and Elizabeth Catherine Mary Mason are my branch (well, my husband's branch, anyway), so I thought I might weigh in and add what I know.

This couple were both living in NZ by 1872, in time for the birth of their daughter Eliza Charlotte (my husband's gr. grandmother).  She was born on 11th December 1872, in Cashel Street East, Christchurch (registered in Jan 1873) - I have a copy of the entry to prove it!.  Her father's profession is listed as a Plasterer, and her mother is listed as Elizabeth MacBeth, formerly Mason, so they were doing the common law thing well by 1872 as well.

I was not able to find their marriage cert, because I was looking in the wrong period (1868 to 1872), assuming, of course, that they were legally married before producing offspring, and that all the details attached to all Birth/Death certificates I have concerning this couple were correct (age when married - 22 for Thomas and 21 for Elizabeth, according to their Death Certs).  Hmm, next time, I'll be Devil's advocate and widen my search.

The MacBeth family, complete with sons Thomas and Robert, had moved to NSW by 1883, as Thomas senior to appears in the Sands Business Directory for that year, as a Plasterer.  He also appears in 1887, and Elizabeth has entries for 1887 and 1888, as a midwife.  They move to Victoria by April 1892, as they are resident in the town of Warracknabeal, in time for daughter Eliza Charlotte's marriage to William Alexander Patterson.  Elizabeth was practicing as a midwife at the time, including the birth of eldest granddaughter Jessie Lillian Patterson in the June of 1892 (married just in time!).  By 1898, they are back in Sydney and both listed in the Sands directory for that year.

Interestingly enough, Eliza Charlotte returned home in 1904 for the birth of her youngest son, Sydney, which unfortunately did not go well - she died at her parent's house, at 341 Cleveland Street, Redfern, on 16 August 1904, the day after he was born.  Maybe it was a troublesome pregnancy, hence the return home?  She was buried in Rookwood Cemetery, Sydney, leaving husband William to bring up their six young children alone, back in Warracknabeal.

Thomas and Elizabeth also had an adopted daughter, Pearl, who married James Henry Brooks in 1906 in Windsor, NSW.  Not sure if she was adopted in NZ or NSW, however.

How's that for some further info on this couple?!?

Regards

Jenny


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