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This has got me really confused and frustrated.

I was told that James Alexander Milne (my Great-Grandmother's brother, b. 1883, Edinburgh and died 1922, Edinburgh) was a Master Mariner, also he was Master-At-Arms as well as being aboard HMS Britannic when she was torpedoed!  He also wore a naval uniform as the family have a badge off his uniform which could be that of the White Star line.

Now here is the confusing part!  I can find no trace of him in the National Archives under Merchant Navy Seamen (1835-1941), infact under Ancestry - there is again no record of him.

I did find him on the HMS Icarus in 1901 in Hawaii aged 19 years - a Qualified Signalman - born in Edinburgh.  This is the ONLY record I have found for him - but I have no service number.  In 1911 in Aberdeen (which was where he was living with his wife and children) he is noted as being a Fisherman/Trawler - no naval occupation at all!

I was told that he was Man-At-Arms on HMS Britannic - but again I can find no record of him amoungst any 'crew' lists I have found. 

I have his occupation in 1907 (the year of his marriage) as a Trawler/Fisherman - it is only after 1911 that his occupation changes to 'Master Mariner'.  He is not listed under the online index of Lloyds Captains Registers either so he cant be a Master Mariner.

Now this leaves me with nothing concrete.  He MUST have been a sailor in the first world war as he wore a uniform those badges resembled the White Star Line. 


Things we know/ hold for James Alexander Milne:

•   Button off a Merchant Navy uniform (Burgee with a Star in the centre) – could be connected with the house flag of the White Star Line (later Cunard Steamship Company) or the house flag of the Aberdeen & Commonwealth Steamship Co Ltd (owners of the ill-fated ‘Jervis Bay’ which sacrificed itself and all her crew to save a convoy under attack by the German battleship ‘Schamhorst’ in the early days of the second world war).
•   Photograph of James Alexander Milne (looking much older than his 40 years)
•   Information from the family to suggest he was a Freemason and held a high rank.
•   Confirmations of occupation on marriage/birth certificates of his children and James Alexander Milne’s death certificate in 1922 and later his wife’s death certificate
•   Young photo of him taken with his family in Sea Cadet uniform
•   Conflicting information from family members who say he was a Master Mariner/Master-at-Arms or with the Royal Navy or Seaman (Master)
•   Information from  late Mr Ian G Hughes who did research on the ‘Britannic’ but hit a dead end with his service record
•   He was unemployed from the sinking of the ‘Britannic’
•   Presented with the Aegean Star WW1 Medal (1914-1915) – found on Ancestry.co.uk


1901 Census he is listed under the crew of HMS ICARUS stationed in Honolulu Hawaii Islands.  He is aged 19 years, single and a qualified signalman, born Edinburgh, Scotland. 


Timeline:-

1883   Birth – Edinburgh

1891   Census – 11 Upper Grove Place, Edinburgh
   James Milne aged 8 years old

1901   Census - Royal Navy on board HMS Icarus
   Occupation noted as ‘Qualified Signalman’
   Location: Honolulu Hawaii Islands
   Age: 19 years   Born in Edinburgh, Scotland

1907   Marriage to Mary Duffus Graham
      Occupation noted as Trawl-Fisherman

1908   Birth of Alexander Graham Milne, Aberdeen
      Occupation stated on certificate: Fisherman

1911   Census of 18 Links Street, St Clements District, Aberdeen
   James A Milne   28   M   Head   Fisherman/Trawler   b. England
   Mary Milne   25   M   Wife            b. Aberdeen
   Alexander Milne   3   -   Son            b. Aberdeen
   Elizabeth Graham   65   W   Mother-in-law         b. Banffshire, Portsoy
   Occupation as stated on the Census return: Fisherman (Trawler)
   (His place of birth is incorrect – probably a transcription error should be Edinburgh)

1911   Birth of Elizabeth Graham Milne, Aberdeen
      Occupation stated on certificate: Fisherman (present at birth)


1912   Birth of Mary Duffus Graham Milne, Aberdeen
   Occupation stated on certificate:

1914-1915   Received the Aegean Star (WW1 Medal) which was awarded for services rendered in the theatres of war between 5th Aug 1914 and 31st Dec 1915.

1915   Birth of Nellie Milne, Aberdeen
   Occupation stated on certificate:

1917   Birth of John Alexander Milne, Aberdeen
   Occupation stated on certificate:

1920   Birth of Jeannette Clark Milne, Aberdeen
   Occupation stated on certificate:

1922   Birth of Margaret Lumsden Grant Milne, Aberdeen
   Occupation stated on certificate:
   Death of James Alexander Milne, Aug 1922, Edinburgh
   Occupation stated on certificate: Master Mariner

1947   Death of Mary Duffus Milne or Graham, Aberdeen
   Occupation stated on certificate: Master Mariner


I'm looking for ANY clues as to where I go next as I've tried all the obvious places.

Lorna1320
Edinburgh

Hi!

I'm looking for any references to the surname BURN from Aberlady - originally from Kingston, East Lothian.  This is what I have - although I know there will be errors with it!


David Thomson (b. 1794; d. 6th March 1870), Sawyer
m. Barbara Burn or Burns, d. between 1846-1851 (not on the 1851 census)
on 11th May 1822 in Aberlady


1841 Census for Aberlady, East Lothian:
David Thomson   47   Sawyer   Born in the Parish
Barbara Thomson   35         Born in the Parish
Catherine Thomson   15         Born in the Parish
Margaret Thomson   13         Born in the Parish
Jean Thomson      11         Born in the Parish
Leonard Thomson   9         Born in the Parish
James Thomson   7         Born in the Parish
Marion Thomson   3         Born in the Parish
Ann Thomson      2 months      Born in the Parish
George Litster      47   Ag Lab   Born in the Parish
Jean Litster      45         Born in the Parish
Barbara Litster      5         Born in the Parish
Barbara Burns      70         Born in the Parish

1851 Census for Aberlady, East Lothian:
David Thomson Head   55   Widower           Sawyer      Born in the Parish
Jane Thomson      Dau   21   Unmarried         Born in the Parish
Leonard Thomson   Son   19   Unmarried   Sawyer      Born in the Parish
James Thomson   Son   15   Unmarried   Scholar      Born in the Parish
Marion Thomson   Dau   12   Unmarried   Scholar      Born in the Parish
Ann Thomson      Dau   10   Unmarried         Born in the Parish
Davina Thomson   Dau   4   Unmarried         Born in the Parish

1911 Census – 16 Jeffrey Street, Canongate, Edinburgh
James Thomson   S   Uncle   76   Private Means      Retired      b. Aberlady

Staying or visiting James Muat and his family (my Great-Grandfather)

From this information I was able to establish that Barbara Burn who married in 1822 to David Thomson was born on 4th Oct 1802 at Haddington and baptised on 31st Oct 1802 to parents called James BURN and Barbara DARG.

James Burn and Barbara Darg were married on 1st Jan 1796 at Dunbar, East Lothian.  They had the following children:

Marrion Burn, b. 20th Sept 1800 (bapt. 28th Sept), Haddington
Barbara Burn, b. 4th Oct 1802, Haddington
Euphans Burn, b. 20th Apr 1805, Bolton, baptised 19th May 1805, Bolton

Barbara Darg was born on 13th May 1762 at Whitekirk, East Lothian to parents John Darg and Barbara Darg.

Barbara Burn or Thomson must have died between 1846-1851 as she is not listed in the 1851 census and David Thomson her husband is noted as being a widower. 

I believe that the family surname must have been BURN.

From this information I was able to establish a relatively clear link to this surname in Dirleton, East Lothian:-

James Burn married Barbara Darg in Dunbar.  I believe that James Burn was the son of Alexander Burn and Marion Deans and he was born on 23rd Jan 1773, Dirleton, East Lothian.  Alexander Burn and Marion Deans had the following children following their marriage on 24th April 1768, Dirleton, East Lothian:-

*James Burn, b. 23rd Jan 1773, Dirleton
*Andrew Burn, b. 23rd Jan 1773, Dirleton
Anne Burn, b. 7th Au1770, Dirleton
*Rabina Burn, b. 12th Jan 1775, Dirleton
*John Burn, b. 12th Jan 1775, Dirleton

Any help or connections with this surname would really be appreciated.  Kind of hit a brick wall with expanding the branches of this particular family, so need some inspiration from someone!

Many thanks:
Lorna1320

This is the information I have on my ancestors:


William Herbert (Shipwright), b. 18th August 1843, Birkenhead
m. Emma Sale, b. 1843, Broadgreen
on 1st November 1863, St Nicholas, Pier Head, Liverpool

Any help would be wonderful.

Lorna1320
Edinburgh

I have connection to the Joy family from Lancashire (Liverpool), and I have managed to trace them back to the following:


Robert Joy b. abt 1660, Bedford
   Son of
   m. Elizabeth Kniffon
   on. 29th Apr 1684, Marston Morteine
   They had seven children:

Elizabeth Joy
Mary Joy
Robert Joy, b. May 1688, Cople, Bedford
Elizabeth Joy
Steven Joy
William Joy
Ann Joy

Fifth Generation:-


James Joy, b. 4th May 1796, Flitwick (Hawnes), Bedfordshire
   Son of Robert Joy or Joyce and Mary Elmer
   m. Eathel or Ethel Tuffnail, b. 1802, Wilshamstead, Bedford; d. Oct 1867, Bedford
   on. 25th Sept 1821, Wilshamstead, Bedford
   They had at least nine children:

Frederick Joy, b. Mar 1822, Wilhamstead
Samuel Joy, b. 1824, Wilhamstead
Robert Joy, b. 1826, Hawnes
Elizabeth Joy, b. 1827, Hawnes??
Sophia Joy, b. 1828, Hawnes
William Joy, b. abt 1831, Hawnes
Charles Joy, b. abt 1833, Hawnes
Daniel Joy, b. abt 1836, Hawnes, Bedfordshire
Joseph Joy, b. abt 1840, Hawnes
Susan Joy, b. 1842, Haynes, Bedfordshire

James was christened on 17th July 1796 at Flitwick, Bedford.  Ethel Tuffnail could be the daughter of John Tuffnail and Mary – they also had a son called Thomas Tuffnail who was christened on 17th Oct 1814 at Wilshamstead, Bedford. 

1841 – Ampthill, England
James Joy           45   Head      b. 1796, Hawnes, (Flitt) Bedfordshire
Eathel Joy   40   Wife      b. 1801, Hawnes (Flitt), Bedfordshire
Samuel Joy   17   Son      b. 1824, Hawnes, (Flitt), Bedfordshire
Robert Joy   15   Son      b. 1826, Hawnes, (Flitt), Bedfordshire
Sophia Joy   13   Dau      b. 1828, Hawnes, (Flitt), Bedfordshire
William Joy   10   Son      b. 1831, Hawnes, (Flitt), Bedfordshire
Charles Joy   8   Son      b. 1833, Hawnes, (Flitt), Bedfordshire
Daniel Joy           5   Son      b. 1836, Hawnes, (Flitt), Bedfordshire
Joseph Joy   1   Son      b. 1840, Hawnes, (Flitt), Bedfordshire


Sixth Generation:

Daniel Joy, b. abt 1836, Hawnes, Bedfordshire
   Son of James Joy and Ethel Tuffnail
   m. Jane Johnston, b. abt 1848, Kelsal, England
   on Sept 1863, West Derby
   They had seven children:

Mary Jane Joy, b. Sept 1864, Liverpool
Samuel Joy, b. 1866, London; d. 1917, Liverpool
George Joy, b. circa 1868, London
Frederick Joy, b. circa 1871, Liverpool
James Henry Joy, b. circa 1874, Liverpool
Robert Andrew Joy, b. circa 1875, Liverpool; d. 1955, Liverpool
Elizabeth Ann Joy, b. circa 1877, Liverpool

Daniel Joy’s occupation was ‘Railway Tunnel Mines’ – and he was lodging at 104 Mansfield Road, Alfreton (Derbyshire). 

1871 Census – No 2 Byles Court (Byles Street), Toxteth Park, Liverpool
Daniel Joy              31   Head                   General Labourer      b. Bedfordshire
Jane Joy         28   Wife            b. Lancashire
Mary Jane Joy      7   Dau            b. Lancashire
Samuel Joy      5   Son            b. London
George Joy      3   Son            b. London
Frederick Joy      8m   Son            b. Lancashire

1881 Census – Walton on Hill – 18 Lind Street, Liverpool
Daniel Joy              43   Head                   General Labourer      b. Bedford
Jane Joy         33   Wife            b. Kel.. Cheshire
Mary Jane Joy      16   Dau            b. Liverpool
George Joy      13   Son            b. London
Frederick Joy      10   Son            b. Liverpool
James Henry Joy   7   Son            b. Liverpool
Robert Joy      6   Son            b. Liverpool
Elizabeth Ann Joy   4   Dau            b. Liverpool

Note: Robert Joy above was my Great-Great-Grandfather

Any interests?

Lorna1320
(Edinburgh)