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Topics - JAKnighton

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1
The Lighter Side / What was your most painful mistake?
« on: Thursday 04 January 24 12:21 GMT (UK)  »
We've all made mistakes in our family tree. Usually as beginners, but even experienced researchers can slip up - and fixing those mistakes can be painful. We get attached to those who we believe to be our ancestors, so finding out that they're not related at all and having to remove them from our tree can hurt.

In my case, it was the parents of my 5x great-grandmother, Mary Barrass. Mary existed at an awkward point in time. I knew that she married her husband Robert Gray in Gateshead, County Durham on April 28, 1823 and that their daughter, my 4x great-grandmother Dorothy Gray had been born in Newcastle in 1834. However, the family had moved to Glasgow, Scotland by 1851, and this was just before the statutory registration system in Scotland had begun. Her husband Robert was a widow by 1861 according to the census and I could not find a death record for her after 1855 which meant she must have died between 1851 and 1854. This was frustrating, because if she had died after 1855, then the death record would have given the names of her parents.

But I (foolishly) persevered by making a silly assumption, that the place of her marriage, Gateshead, was the same place she was born. I managed to ignore the fact that her birth county in the 1841 census was said to be Northumberland and not Durham. I also overlooked that her first child, an illegitimate son named Edward Dodd Barrass, was christened in the parish of Earsdon in Northumberland in 1816, which should have been a big clue.

The record I honed in on was the christening of Mary Ann Barrass in Gateshead in 1796. Her parents were George Barrass and Isabella Shipley who married in Gateshead in 1792.

I soon discovered that Mary Ann's father George Barrass had an interesting story. He was a linen draper and partner of the firm Messers. John Rodham & Co. in Gateshead, but then left to work on his own in 1786. In 1800 he was charged with forgery and he went on the run, and a reward of twenty guineas was offered for his capture. His body was eventually found, drowned in a brook between Whitburn and Sunderland, on 18 Oct 1800.

This was the kind of family story that we genealogists dream of. Particularly for ancestors born before the 19th century, who typically leave very little details of their life behind in their records. I traced George's family further back in Gateshead and into Whickham, which offered a tantalising possibility that he was connected to the famous Barrass brewery family that lived there.

But in 2022 a helpful member of this forum sent me a private message. She had managed to find the death of my 5x great-grandmother Mary Barrass in Glasgow cemetery records in 1854. Most importantly, she pointed out that Mary was far more likely to be the Mary Barrass born in Earsdon, Northumberland in 1794 - the same place her oldest son was born in 1816. This Mary's parents were named John Barrass and Jane Crammond, which matched the names of two of her children, John Barrass Gray and Jane Barrass Gray.

I was slightly embarrassed and disappointed that George Barrass and his amazing story was not part of my family history anymore. My real 6x great-grandfather was actually John Barrass, a pitman who died young in 1796 and didn't leave any more details about his life behind. I became aware of how common and widespread the Barrass name was in the north east of England and so have had difficulty tracing the family back very far with any certainty.

Having said that, there is a different satisfaction in knowing that you have a new family history that is better supported by the facts, and not just an assumption that has lead you astray. It's given me a new approach for how I analyse the evidence and I've learned a valuable lesson.

This turned out to be longer that I originally planned. I hope you found it interesting and that you will share your stories here!

2
Lanarkshire / When and where did Robert Gray die?
« on: Friday 24 March 23 14:57 GMT (UK)  »
This is quite long, sorry!

My 5x great-grandparents, Robert Gray and Mary Barrass, were married on April 28, 1823 in Gateshead, County Durham.

They had the following children;

1. Richard Gray, baptised at All Saints, Newcastle upon Tyne, on March 28, 1824.
2. Mary Ann Gray, baptised at St Hilda's, South Shields, on January 22, 1826.
3. Robert Gray, baptised at St Hilda's, South Shields, on December 5, 1827.
4. John Barras Gray, baptised at St Hilda's, South Shields, on March 7, 1830. Buried there December 16, 1830.
5. Jane Gray, baptised at St Hilda's, South Shields, on November 25, 1831.
6. Dorothy Gray, baptised at All Saints, Newcastle upon Tyne, on February 23, 1834. My 4x great-grandmother.
7. Ralph Gray, born on April 9, 1838 in Newcastle upon Tyne, baptised at All Saints on May 13, 1838.

Mary also had a child before her marriage to Robert. His name was Edward Dodd Barrass, baptised on February 10, 1816 at St Alban's in Earsdon, Northumberland.

In the 1841 census, this family can be found living at East Ballast Hills in the Byker district of Newcastle upon Tyne. Robert's age, considering that ages on the 1841 census are rounded up to the nearest five, is given as 40 and his occupation is described as a labourer. He is recorded as having been born in the county of Northumberland.

You're probably wondering by now why this Northumberland family has been put in the Lanarkshire, Scotland board, so here is your answer:

By the 1851 census, Robert and his wife Mary had moved to Glasgow. They were living at 78 Waters Street. The two youngest children, Dorothy and Ralph, are living with them. Robert's age is given as 51, his birthplace is described as Northumberland, and his occupation is agricultural labourer.

Robert's wife Mary died on June 28, 1854 at 78 Waters Street and was buried the following day at Sighthill Cemetery.

In the 1861 census, Robert is living at 70 Stewart Street, Milton. He is living with his daughter, Mary Ann, her husband William Forbes, and their children. Robert's age is given as 60, his birthplace described as England, and no occupation is recorded.

That is the last confirmed record I have for Robert.



A search for the death of Robert Gray in the statutory death registers has turned up nothing so far. Since Robert Gray is a very common name, it's expensive to eliminate all the possible candidates. But a search for Robert Grays who born five years before/after 1800, and who died after 1861 in Glasgow, has not turned up the correct Robert Gray. Broader searches for Robert Grays of all ages hasn't found anything either.

There are deaths for Robert Grays with the correct estimated birth year in other parts of Scotland, but with no obvious links to those areas, I'm reluctant to spend the credits to check.


Last time we saw Robert he was living with his daughter Mary Ann and her family. That was in 1861. The interesting thing is that if we try to find Mary Ann in 1871, she is nowhere to be found. Her husband and younger children can be found but she isn't with them. In 1881, she can be found living on her own at 17 Broomhill Street. She died on November 20, 1887, found dead on 9 Brown Street, Port Dundas. Her husband was the informant, so it seems they were still in contact. Robert Gray was named as her father on the register and described as deceased, so that's evidence he was dead by 1887. Interestingly, on this death record, Robert's occupation is described as 'Glass Work Labourer', which doesn't fit with what we have seen so far, although three of his children including his step-son Edward were glass workers employed at the Glassworks in Port Dundas.

If Robert was last seen living with Mary in 1861, and Mary is missing in 1871, it is possible that Robert was still alive in 1871 and living with Mary, somewhere.

It's possible that Robert didn't die in Scotland. His oldest son Richard emigrated to the United States in 1866, and he may have arranged for his elderly father to join him and then Robert died there at some point. His youngest son Ralph also emigrated there in 1863.

His daughter Jane stayed in the north-east of England and died in Sunderland in 1905. Robert may have returned to England to live with Jane and died there, in which case I will have to sift through all the Robert Grays who were registered in that region. I'd be surprised if Jane wanted him around though, as she had about twelve children to take care of!

Dorothy, my 4x great-grandmother, remained in Glasgow and applied for poor relief in 1893 which also confirms that Robert was dead by that point, which isn't a surprise as he would be in his nineties by then.

His step-son Edward Dodd Barrass also lived in the north-east of England.



Is there anything obvious that I have missed? I'd appreciate your thoughts on how I can find this death record. I really hope that he died in Scotland, as that would potentially give me the names of his parents, in which case I could narrow down a baptism for him because there are too many possible candidates at the moment with the information I currently have.

3
Ireland / Disproportionate amount of bachelors and spinsters
« on: Sunday 05 February 23 01:43 GMT (UK)  »
Sometimes I like to do a broad search of civil death records in registration districts my ancestors resided in to see what I can find.

One thing I have noticed is the sheer amount of people who have died in their 60s and 70s and are being recorded as bachelors and spinsters.

Frankly, there are too many. I am not sure these people are actually bachelors or spinsters at all. If I had to guess, these people are actually widows/widowers, and the registrars are recording them incorrectly.

Is this a known phenomenon?

4
Dunbartonshire / Woodilee Asylum
« on: Wednesday 07 September 22 11:43 BST (UK)  »
My 3x great-grandfather George McMillan passed away in the Woodilee Asylum in Lenzie on 26 Nov 1917.

According to the Archives Hub website (https://archiveshub.jisc.ac.uk/search/archives/848cbb3e-2014-354f-ac26-dce2b66a4cdd), records for the asylum are held by the NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde Archives which includes items such as case files, minute books, correspondence etc.

What I would like to know is:

1. Has anyone here applied for these records before?
2. What was the process like?
3. What kind of information can I expect from these records?

Thank you.

5
Huntingdonshire Lookup Requests / JOYCE Baptism/Marriages in Covington
« on: Tuesday 14 June 22 14:37 BST (UK)  »
Hi, I'm wondering if anyone has access to baptism and marriage records for Covington so that I can get some records for the Joyce family that lived there.

Find My Past has burials for Covington as part of their 'Huntingdonshire Burials' dataset, but baptisms/marriages for Covington don't seem to be online.

These are the burials that I have;

Anne Joyce, wife of John, buried 18 Apr 1729
John Joyce, parish clerk, buried 1 Mar 1730
Joseph Joyce, son of Richard & Sarah, buried 3 Mar 1740
John Joyce, son of Richard & Sarah, buried 11 Jun 1744
Richard Joyce, son of Richard, buried 10 Dec 1752
Joseph Joyce, lab, buried 30 Jan 1765
Richard Joyce, lab, buried 2 Mar 1772
Sarah Joyce, widow(er), buried 2 Dec 1772

I am able to build a rudimentary tree based on the information in the burial records but obviously the baptisms and marriages are necessary to confirm relationships.

Thank you.

6
I'm trying to find the marriage record for my 5x great-grandparents Joseph and Sarah Irving, who I assume got married sometime before 1826 in the Blennerhasset or Torpenhow area.

This is what I know about them;

Joseph Irving born 27 Oct 1795 in Holme Cultram.

Sarah was born around 1799, in the 1851 census her place of birth was given as Blennerhasset, in 1861 it was given as Torpenhow.

They must have been married before 1826 because their eldest children, twins William and Mary were born in 1826. They had at least two more children; Joseph in 1833 and John in 1838.

They lived at Bromfield in the 1841 census, then Westnewton in 1851, then Langrigg in 1861.

Sarah died on July 29, 1866 in Langrigg, Cumberland.

Joseph died on May 20, 1877 in Langrigg.

I have searched for a marriage on Ancestry, Find My Past, FreeReg and Familysearch but haven't had any luck. I've searched using surname variants such as Irvin, Irwin, or Irvine.

I'd appreciate any help or advice in finding this marriage!

Thank you.


7
Kent / REED/READ/REID family in Deptford
« on: Friday 24 July 20 11:39 BST (UK)  »
My 4x great-grandmother was Hannah Reed, who was christened at St. Paul's Church, Deptford on July 14, 1805. Her parents were Daniel Reed, lighterman, and Elizabeth.

Daniel and Elizabeth had at least four more children; Henry in 1807, Daniel in 1808, Elizabeth in 1810 and another Daniel in 1813.

I haven't been able to find a marriage for Daniel and Elizabeth. The closest I can find is a Daniel Read and Elizabeth Lockwood who were married at Barking, Essex in 1798, but I don't think that is the correct couple. I can't find them in any census records, and I've found a few burial records that could be Elizabeth, but not for Daniel.

Daniel's occupation is given as lighterman/waterman in the christening records of his children, except for the youngest, Daniel in 1813, where his occupation is given as labourer.

In the "Thames Watermen & Lightermen 1688-2010" database on FindMyPast, there is a record for an apprentice Daniel Reed being bound to master Joseph Hoare on September 29, 1791 at Southwark St. Olave.

There are other Reed families living in the area and several of the men are lightermen, watermen and mariners. 'Daniel' is a particularly common name among them, as is Henry.

Does anyone have any advice on where to look for more information? It would be much appreciated.

8
Huntingdonshire / James Wayman of Great Paxton/Graveley
« on: Tuesday 28 January 20 14:59 GMT (UK)  »
This person has eluded me for years. James Wayman was born in 1835 at Great Paxton to parents John Wayman and Ann Chamberlain. He is living with his parents at Great Paxton in the 1841 and 1851 census, and then in the 1861 census he is a visitor staying in the home of his sister Sarah (married name Hook), also at Great Paxton.

After that he disappears until the 1901 census when he is once again a visitor, staying in the house of his nephew Malta Corn at Graveley. His occupation is 'labourer on road'. He is single.

I can't find a death for him. I ordered a death certificate for a James Wayman who died 1906 in Solihull, Warwickshire but that turned out to be a different person.

I'm wondering if he worked abroad and possibly died while overseas?

9
The Common Room / What has happened to GenFair?
« on: Monday 30 December 19 21:31 GMT (UK)  »
It looks like individual parish registers are no longer available to purchase and download.

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