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Topics - element4

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1
Derbyshire / Would Charlesworth come under Hayfield death registration district?
« on: Thursday 11 October 18 11:26 BST (UK)  »
I have been trying to trace as much as possible about my 3x great grandmother, Fanny Greenwood, born 1797 in Heptonstall, Yorkshire, who in later life was living in Charlesworth, Derbyshire, and I think died in Charlesworth, Derbyshire on 21st January 1866.

I found a difficult to find record in Derbyshire, England, Church of England Burials for a Fanny Greenwood who died in Charlesworth, Derbyshire on 21st January 1866, estimated age 73, born about 1793.

This might be the same person in the England and Wales Civil Registration Death Index of a Fanny Greenwood, born about 1793, died 1866, Quarter Jan, Feb, March.  Age 73.  Hayfield, Derbyshire.  Volume 7b, Page 473.

Would deaths in Charlesworth come under Hayfield?

On the 1861 census she is shown as a widow age 68, though she was 64 according to my reckoning of her birth in 1797.  Living with her daughter Mary and two grandsons.

Is the civil registration the same person as the Church of England burial record?  She was definitely living in the Charlesworth area.

2
United States of America / Mary Ellen Greenwood passenger ship Rhynland, Liverpool to Philadelphia 1899.
« on: Saturday 15 September 18 14:38 BST (UK)  »
I have been trying to find out about an ancestor, my grandfather's sister, Mary Ellen Greenwood, born in Salford, England on 25th June 1869.  She is on the English censuses in 1871, 1881 and 1891, living with her parents.  After that there are no records for her; I can't find a marriage record or censuses or anything, but there is an emigration record that could be her. 

Mary Greenwood age 30, birth date 1869, Servant, departure date 27/9/1899 from Liverpool, England to Philadelphia, USA.  The ship name is Rhynland, master Doxrud.

It does fit, as I know that at least one of her sisters was a domestic servant "in service".

I think Mary Ellen Greenwood must at some stage have married in America and had children, as I have done an autosomal DNA test and share quite a lot of DNA with people in America (68 centimorgans with one, which is a similar amount as a known DNA match of a descendant of another of my grandfather's siblings).

3
Lancashire / Bleach Works in Salford in 1867?
« on: Thursday 24 August 17 13:26 BST (UK)  »
I found that my great grandfather is described on his first daughter's birth certificate in 1867 as "Labourer at a Bleach Works".  The family were living at 3, Sandywell, Greengate, Salford.

Was there a well-known Bleach Works in this area?  Maybe there were loads, and it could have been one of many.  I assume they were bleaching cotton, but I don't really know what a Bleach Works did.

This daughter, Rebecca Greenwood, was born on thirteenth July 1867 in Sandywell, and died in April 1871.  Her parents were James Hiram Greenwood (who was later just known as Hiram Greenwood) and Mary Ann, maiden name Roche.  I think they must have been married in Ireland as there is no existing marriage certificate for them in England, and Mary Ann was born in Dublin, Ireland, and Hiram's mother was Irish, living at the time of the 1851 census in Salford, then Hiram's mother, father and his mother's two siblings vanish and never re-appear, though Hiram, with Mary Ann and their two small daughters, re-appear on the 1871 census, living in Salford.  I assume the whole family was living together in Ireland.

4
Cheshire / Two generations disappear from all records.
« on: Saturday 18 March 17 14:39 GMT (UK)  »
I can't find any traces beyond the 1911 census for four siblings born between 1899 and 1910.  I easily found their births and baptisms, and the deaths of their parents in 1932 and 1941.

I seem to have found a possible family link, with a few members of two generations of this family, emigrating to Quebec, Montreal, via Liverpool.  I could have totally the wrong person, but Ethel Greenwood born October 1902 Woolley Bridge, Cheshire, parents Thomas 1874-1932 and Martha 1873-1941 might have been the same person I found who sailed to Quebec from Liverpool on 10th June 1932, and returned on 16th September 1932 with her 2 year old daughter.  They give their last address in the UK as Warrington, and her job as "household duties".

Her aunt, Mary Ellen Greenwood, born 1870 in Salford may also be the same person who travelled to Quebec via Liverpool in 1893 and 1920.

Two generations of this family, which includes many people, totally disappear from the UK records.  The younger generation, the four children of Thomas and Martha Greenwood, are easily found in the 1911 census in Glossop, Derbyshire, but absolutely nothing after that.  The older generation, Thomas Greenwood's siblings, also disappear.  One sibling I can find nothing about is Mary Frances Greenwood, born 1876 in Broadbottom, Cheshire, who appears on the 1891 census as daughter, single, age 15, Jack Frame Tenter Cotton, living at Earnshaw Street, Hollingworth.  I remember being told that she worked as a servant at one time.  I am wondering if she travelled to Quebec, Canada initially with the family she worked as a servant for.

It seems so odd that two generations of a family who were previously very easy to find on all the records just seem to disappear. 

5
Louth / Cathan Mathews, Kilsaran, Louth. Died between 1823 and 1828?
« on: Tuesday 14 March 17 00:35 GMT (UK)  »
As I just asked in a reply to somebody else on this forum, I am trying to find out about my great, great, great grandmother Cathan Mathews.  Her daughter Bridget Ward was baptised on 15th June 1823 in Kilsaran, Louth, Ireland, according to the Catholic Parish Registers 1809-1826.  Spouse James Ward, child Bridget Ward.

I haven't been able to find out much about my great, great grandmother Bridget Ward, other than her marriage to my great, great grandfather Thomas Greenwood in Manchester in 1846, and the birth of my great grandfather Hiram Greenwood in Manchester in 1846, and they are all on the 1851 census living in Manchester with Bridget's half brother and sister, Betsy Ward, born 1828 Ireland, and John Ward, born 1837 Ireland.  (Somebody on another thread on this forum a long time ago said in passing that they were Bridget's half siblings).

The family can't be found on the 1861 census, and I have no further trace of either Bridget or Thomas Greenwood, or of Betsy and John Ward, but Hiram re-appears on the 1871 census living in Salford with his Irish (Dublin) born wife Mary Ann (Roche, 1848-1900) and two infant daughters. Hiram's first child Rebecca was born in 1868 in Salford, and his second child Mary Ellen in 1870 in Salford.

I wonder if the whole family went back to Ireland, which is why they were not on the English 1861 census.  Also, I wonder if Bridget and Thomas stayed in Ireland?

It looks as though Cathan Mathews might have died some time between 1823 when Bridget was born and 1828 when Betsy Ward was born, and James Ward might have re-married during that time, possibly in Kilsaran, Louth.

6
Graveyards and Gravestones / Can anyone read the writing on this gravestone?
« on: Thursday 18 August 16 19:16 BST (UK)  »
I know it says Thomas Greenwood, but I can't read any of the other writing to see if it mentions anyone else he is related to, or if it gives any other useful information.

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=greenwood&GSfn=thomas&GSby=1819&GSbyrel=in&GSdy=1878&GSdyrel=in&GScntry=5&GSob=n&GRid=163300342&df=all&

7
Dublin / Family who might have returned to Dublin between 1851 and 1861. Greenwood/Ward.
« on: Tuesday 16 August 16 16:19 BST (UK)  »
I have been searching for my ancestors who seemed to vanish after the 1851 UK census, and their son, my great grandfather, re-appears on the 1871 UK census age 25 in Manchester.

As the wife was born in Dublin, I wondered if maybe the family all returned to Dublin, and their son returned to Manchester by 1871.

The 1851 census lists Thomas Greenwood,born 1817 Hebden Bridge age 32, West Yorkshire, Broker, Bridget Ward his wife born 1823 Dublin Ireland age 28, Hiram age 4 , James age 3, Betsy Ward house servant age 23 and John Ward age 14 no occupation.  The last two are Bridget Ward's younger siblings, born in Dublin Ireland.  They were living at 3 Clegg Court, Salford, Manchester.

None of them can be found on the UK 1861 census, and only Hiram re-appears on the 1871 UK census.

It was suggested to me that Thomas might have been sent to Australia and Bridget died young, but I can't find any death records or anything about deportation or Australia.

So I wondered if they returned to Bridget's home town of Dublin,Ireland some time after 1851 and before 1861.  Her and Betsy and John's father was called James Ward.  Maybe they went back to her family, after the worst of the Irish famine had passed.  There must have been pressure to leave the slums of Salford.

Where would I find this information?

8
Lancashire / Angel Street Manchester.
« on: Friday 12 August 16 14:37 BST (UK)  »
My ancestors Thomas Greenwood and Bridget Ward got married in 1846 and their address on their marriage certificate is given as 30 Angel Street.  I looked it up on a google map of Manchester, and Angel Street runs alongside a park area that used to be the notorious slum Angel Meadows.

Thomas Greenwood is described on his marriage certificate as a Marine Store Keeper, which I never understood until today reading something about Angel Meadows, where it said that there were a lot of Marine Stores in Angel Meadows, and it means a rag and bone man.

On the 1851 census, Thomas and Bridget are living with Bridget's younger brother and sister, and their two sons.  Bridget was born in Ireland.

The 1951 census doesn't make them sound overcrowded or living in the kind of many to a room slum conditions you associate with the descriptions of Angel Meadows.

Does anyone know anything about this area?

9
Lancashire / Ravald Street, Salford in 1871.
« on: Saturday 06 August 16 15:36 BST (UK)  »
Some of my ancestors lived at 25 Ravald Street, Salford in 1871.

According to the 1871 census, Hiram Greenwood age 25, born in 1846 in Hulme, Lancashire, his wife Mary Ann, born Roche in 1848 in Dublin, Ireland, age 23, their daughter Rebecca age 3 born 1868, and Mary Ellen age 1 born 1870.

Their daughter Rebecca died age 3, and soon afterwards they moved away from Salford, to the countryside, where the rest of their children were born and survived.

I wondered what part of Salford Ravald Street was, and if it was near the famous Angel Meadows, and what the living conditions were like there?

Hiram Greenwood was born in Hulme, and his mother, Bridget Ward, was also Irish.  So he was moving away from where he had lived all his life.

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