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Topics - avm228

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1
Surrey / Need help tracing George John Titson and family
« on: Monday 19 December 22 22:44 GMT (UK)  »
Hello all

George John Titson (indexed TITSONK in the typed GRO register, apparently in error) married Phoebe Simmons in Lambeth, Dec qtr 1907.

They had a son, Reginald Titson, in late 1911 whose birth was registered in Lambeth, Mar qtr 1912. He was baptised as Reggie Titson at All Saints, South Lambeth, on 22 Dec 1911. Abode was 41 Jeffreys Rd which was a maternity nursing home, so not the family’s usual address.

I have no evidence at the moment of being related to these people, but Titson is a very rare surname and I am hoping they may link somehow to my own Titsons from South London (my earliest known Titson is William, c1802-1848, of Southwark).

If anyone can find any records of George John Titson and/or his family members other than the records I have mentioned, I’d be grateful.

2
Hi all

Possibly rather a niche question, but I thought I’d put a call out to the collective wisdom of Rootschat.

I have been asked for help by an elderly person currently overseas who needs a transcript of his 1947 adoption hearing in England (the specific court in SW England is known, but I’ll keep it vague on here). This is required by an overseas passport authority.

Is this something that can be obtained? If so, does anyone know where I can point the gentleman for help?

Many thanks in advance.

3
Hi folks - apologies in advance for a long one :)

I previously mentioned William & Harriet Calenton as a bit of a postscript at the tail-end of a previous thread, and received welcome help from Emsworthy (thank you!). However, new evidence has now come to light which means I need to think afresh about them. Essentially I believe Harriet Calenton née Elbro must have been closely connected with my 3x ggm Harriet Haynes née Elbro, and I would like to find the link so as to advance my knowledge of the rather difficult Elbro family (originally from Stow on the Wold, Gloucestershire).

Previous thread here: www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=835003.msg7003927#msg7003927

I previously thought the Calenton marriage in 1835 (detailed below) was likely to be a first marriage for my Harriet Elbro (1811-1877). I am descended from her marriage to William Haynes in 1839.  However it is now clear that the Calentons had a daughter as late as 1845, so the two couples overlap and the Harriets, though of similar ages, must be separate people.

Basic (tentative) chronology of the Calentons:

21 Apr 1835: Marriage at St George Hanover Square of Harriet Elbro to William Calenton (or Caleington in the banns book) - both of the parish - witnessed by Thomas Daly and Sophia Bentley.

21 May 1835: Baptism in Lambeth of Henry Callindon, parents William (servant) & Harriet, of Bridge St.

24 Mar 1836: Burial in Westminster of a Henry Calenton of 11 Kensington Place, aged “3 months”.  ???

11 Feb 1845: Birth at Holborn Lying-In Hospital of a daughter to Harriet Calenton wife of William, a labourer, settlement “Stoke”. Indexed as Girl Calenton on Ancestry and Female Calenton on birth reg, mmn Elbro. The age of the mother Harriet is noted in the hospital register as 35, so born about 1810.

I have nothing further on them - no census entries or death registrations.

Emsworthy found a promising William Callenden baptised on 26th November 1795 at St Mary Lambeth, to a mother named Mary. I haven’t been able to find him subsequently.

The marriage witness Sophia Bentley is important because she also witnessed the marriage of “my” Harriet Elbro to William Haynes, 5 May 1839 at St Mary Lambeth, and was lodging with Harriet Haynes’ relative Rebecca Sullivan as late as 1861. I had a bit of a look into her on the old thread at reply #24 - I have no reason to think she was related to any of the people mentioned on the thread, but she may have taken in lodgers and become close to them. It’s possible there’s a deeper link that I haven’t found. She was born Sophia Manwaring in Cranbrook, Kent c1800, and married Nathaniel Bentley in Wimbledon in 1822 - he died in 1839.

NB “my” Harriet Elbro was born in 1811 in Stow on the Wold and - I believe - baptised in Lower Swell, Gloucestershire as the daughter of single woman Mary Ann Elbro. I’d like to be sure I haven’t accidentally picked up the wrong baptism given that this other Harriet seems to be much the same age.

4
Hi folks - am not too well at the moment, so may not be firing on all cylinders! I seem to have made an error in my tree and would appreciate any help in unravelling it. NB for those using Ancestry, my tree is AMAncestry.

This concerns my Crook family of Huddersfield. My 4x g-grandfather Benjamin Crook (1764-1834) was married twice, as follows:

1. Betty/Elizabeth Cheetham (1769-1799), married in Elland in 1786. Children: Ann 1786, Mary 1789, Hannah 1791, Sarah 1794, Elizabeth 1796, Richard 1799.

2. Hannah Beaumont (1773-1829), married at St Peter’s, Huddersfield in 1801. Children: Joseph 1802, Caroline 1807, Benjamin 1808 (my direct line), William 1810, Samuel Thomas 1812, Henry 1817.

Wanting to trace what happened to daughter Hannah born 1791, I noted that in her father Benjamin’s 1833 will there was reference to a daughter “Hannah, wife of Joseph Millnes”.

There’s a marriage in Huddersfield of Hannah Crook to Joseph Milnes, 5 June 1814. So far so good.

The difficulty arises in tracing that Milnes couple. I’ve attached to my tree the family headed by Joseph Milnes c1802 Longwood, wife Hannah b c1804-5 Golcar. But her age is obviously not a fit for my Hannah b 1791. There are 12 known children in their family from John Milnes 1817 to Iver Campbell Milnes 1843 - on any view my Hannah (1791) would have been too old to be childbearing in the 1840s. And child number 10, George Henry Milnes, has mother’s maiden name Hirst on his 1840 birth reg. I can’t find birth registrations for the younger children, Beaumont Milnes (1841) and Iver Campbell Milnes (1843).

Another problem: a Hannah born 1804-5 would have been too young to marry in 1814. I have wondered whether Benjamin Crook and 2nd wife Hannah née Beaumont had a daughter Hannah in the gap between Joseph 1802 and Caroline 1807, but surely she could not be a bride in 1814? It’s a shame, because if she were it would explain the naming of the 11th Milnes child as Beaumont - her mother’s maiden name.

Is there more than one Hannah?

Help!  ??? :)


5
With DNA matches showing me as related to descendants of Cicely, I am trying to work out the link.

Here’s her story as I know it.

1902 (12 Mar): “Sicley” Ramsden Charteris born at Grange Terrace, Totley, Dore, to Morris Vane Charteris (compositor) and Annie Charteris formerly Ramsden. Registered by Annie on 18 April, same address.

1924: Cicely Fidler marries Samuel Winson, Derby RD. (Why “Fidler” is unknown - marriage cert awaited).

1939 Register: She is Cicely (or Cecily) Winson b 12 Mar 1902 - with husband and family in Belper.

1985: Cicely Ramsden Winson dies in Mickleover, Derbyshire - birthdate recorded as 12 Mar 1902.

Questions re her parents:

Morris Vane Charteris, compositor - does he exist? Might he be the same person as, or otherwise connected with, Henry Vane Charteris b 1857 (clerk) who was married with a family in Sheffield in 1901? Henry seems to have been born Edward Reardon or Riordan in Ireland or India or Kent, according to online trees.

Annie Ramsden - who was she? Her Yorkshire surname makes her my most likely DNA link, though I don’t currently have any likely Ramsdens in my tree.

I’d appreciate any help in finding Cicely or her parents before her 1924 marriage :)

6
Lanarkshire / Unattributed children in Glasgow - whose exactly were they?
« on: Wednesday 07 October 20 11:03 BST (UK)  »
This may be an impossible quest, but I would very much like to identify the parents of two children who became part of my M(a)cGregor family in Glasgow in the 1850s.

They are:

(1) Alfred McArthur/MacGregor, c1844-?. Born in Saltcoats, per 1871 & 1881 census entries.

(2) Margaret Rasley/MacGregor, later Morrison, 1850-1883. Born in Glasgow.

They appear to have been brought by Caroline Jamieson c1821-1908 (how was she related to them?) into her marriage to my ggg-grandfather John Lindsay MacGregor in 1854.

Another constant person is Margaret Campbell otherwise Crawford (bc1805-1811), who may be Caroline’s maternal aunt. Caroline’s parents, according to her death certificate, were John Jamieson and Jean m.s. Campbell. I know nothing more about Caroline’s birth family.

Chronology as follows:

1841 census: Jane McIntyre 55, Margret Campbell 30 and Caroline Jamieson 15 are in Main St, Glasgow.

1851 census: Margaret Crawford 40, Caroline Jamieson 27 (niece), Alfred McArthur 7 (nephew) and Margaret Rasley 7mo (niece) are at 7 Main St, Glasgow.

1854 (April): Caroline Jamieson marries John Lindsay MacGregor in Glasgow.

1861: The MacGregors are at 103 Main St Glasgow with children of the marriage. Also there are Mrs Crawford 53, Alfred Mccarther 16 “relative” and Margaret McGregor “daughter”, 10.

1871: Mrs (Caroline) McGregor (abandoned by John) is at 103A Main St, Glasgow with children including Alfred McGregor 25 “boarder” and Margaret McGregor 18 “daughter”.

1876: Margaret McGregor marries Andrew Morrison in Kelvin, Glasgow, naming parents as John McGregor, surgeon, and Mary McGregor m.s. Crawford.

1881: “Carolin” McGregor is staying with the Morrisons as “boarder”. Alfred A McGregor (33, lithographic printer) is at 103 Main St, Glasgow with two of his quasi-siblings, children of the MacGregor marriage.

1883: Margaret Morrison (formerly Rasley/MacGregor) dies. Parents named on death cert as Alfred McGregor, doctor, and Caroline McGregor m.s. Campbell. (Her husband was the informant).

Alfred McArthur/MacGregor is untraced after this. I’d welcome any ideas on identifying the parentage of these two mystery children.


7
The Common Room / Help me place Rebecca (born c1813 Gloucestershire) in my tree
« on: Sunday 26 July 20 21:14 BST (UK)  »
My 3x great-grandmother Harriet Elbro had a supposed “sister” Rebecca, whose precise origins I am struggling to find. I’d welcome any help in filling in the gaps in her story.

Harriet and Rebecca were from Gloucestershire, but were in London (specifically Lambeth and Westminster) by the time they were young women, and lived out their adult lives in central London.

Both seem to have had a long-standing connection with a Sophia Bentley née Manwaring (born 1800, Cranbrook, Kent) who was widowed fairly young and lived for decades at 31 Lower Garden St, Westminster. Her daughter Harriet Gibbons née Bentley also features as a marriage witness later on. I have no reason to suppose there was a blood relationship to my Harriet and Rebecca.

My Harriet was born in 1811 in Lower Swell near Stow on the Wold, Gloucestershire, and baptised as the illegitimate daughter of Mary Ann “Elborough” of Lower Swell. As Harriet “Elbro” she married William Haynes in Lambeth in 1839, with Sophia Bentley as a witness - and claimed Thomas Elbro for a father, though this was in fact the name of her maternal uncle. (The other witness was Samuel Hood, perhaps connected with the family of Viscount Hood who employed Harriet, now Haynes, in service in 1841).

In 1851 Harriet and William Haynes had with them at 11 Frederick St, Westminster two lodgers: Rebecca Mason, widow, “wife’s sister” 37 b Stow on the Wold, and her daughter Harriet Mason 6 b St Giles Middlesex.

Rebecca’s story, so far as I know it, is as follows. NB her birth surname is unknown.

c1813-14: Born in Stow on the Wold (per 1851) or Stoke Bishop (per 1861) in Gloucestershire.
1841: Not found.
1845 (14 Jan): Birthdate of daughter Harriet Sophia Mason, per baptism. No birth registration found.
1845 (20 Apr): Baptism (Westminster) of Harriet Sophia, dau of William Mason, carpenter, & Rebecca.
1851: Rebecca and her daughter are with the Haynes family at 11 Frederick St, Westminster.
1853: Rebecca marries widowed labourer James Sullivan, full age, of Regent St. Harriet Gibbons and William Haynes witness. Rebecca’s abode is 11 Frederick St - the Haynes’ address.
1861: Rebecca Sullivan & Harriet, with lodger Sophia Bentley, are at 31 Lower Garden St, Westminster.
1868: Rebecca dies, and her Victoria Park burial record gives her address as Lower Garden St, Westminster.

At present I have her as Rebecca Elbro in my online tree, but there is no evidence of her ever using that surname. Her marriage (if there was one) to William Mason has not been found. When she married James Sullivan she gave her paternal details, oddly, as John Mason, husbandman, deceased.

Another possible maiden surname for Rebecca is Holtom, if she is Harriet’s half-sister. In 1812 Harriet’s mother Mary Ann “Elbrow” married John Holtom in Lower Swell. They had several children in Condicote, Gloucestershire but I have not found a Rebecca among them. At present I have a gap in their family between William 1813 and Thomas 1821.


8
The Common Room / Missing: Mayzod Roffe (1879-?) and her baby (1909-?)
« on: Wednesday 06 May 20 12:15 BST (UK)  »
Can anybody help me find out what happened to Mayzod Roffe, and her child born in Ceylon in 1909?

Mayzod (likely to be the Mayzod Cecile Roffe b 1879 Dulwich) is not related to me, but her name appears in divorce papers of a couple in my tree.

That couple was Philip Henry Milward (1873-1915) and Rosa Marguerite née Edge (1873-1953), whose (first cousin) marriage was childless.

19 Feb 1901: Marriage of Philip Henry Milward and Rosa Marguerite Edge in Worcestershire
Date unknown: Philip and Rosa move to Cape Town, South Africa - Philip perhaps meets Mayzod there
14 Apr 1906: Miss M C Roffe arrives in Southampton from Cape Town on the Armadale Castle
Date unknown: Philip and Mayzod set up home together in Colombo, Ceylon
16 Jan 1909: Philip and Mayzod’s baby is born in Colombo, Ceylon
20 Dec 1911: Rosa Marguerite Milward presents a divorce petition mentioning Mayzod and the baby
13 Dec 1914: Philip Henry Milward arrives in London from Ceylon for Army service in the war
07 Dec 1915: Capt. Philip Henry Milward dies on the Western Front

Much of the detail comes from the divorce petition, which for some reason Rosa did not proceed with. She remained married to Philip at the time of his death - but what happened to Mayzod, and who was Mayzod’s child? I don’t know whether the child was male or female, let alone a name.

As an aside, both Rosa and Mayzod seem to have been talented artists, so I wonder whether that is how the connection was made. Rosa was a sculptor in her widowhood, and continued to travel widely. Mayzod Roffe appears in several 1890s newspaper reports as having received various awards as a student of fine art.

Any help much appreciated.

9
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Can anyone help crack my Broadbents from Halifax?
« on: Monday 30 December 19 14:06 GMT (UK)  »
Sarah Broadbent b c1803-4 Halifax is my 4x great-grandmother, but I haven’t been able to trace her with any confidence before her marriage to Judah Chappell.

Here’s what I know of her:

1827 (16 Oct): Sarah Broadbent, spinster, of Halifax marries Judah Chappell of Ovenden, at Halifax parish church. Witnesses: George Pearson, Thos Beaver (both untraced).

1841 census (in Leeds): Sarah Chappell 35, born in county, with Judah and 4 children.
1851 census (in Leeds): Sarah Chappell 47, born Halifax, with Judah and 2 sons George & John.
1861 census (in Leeds): Sarah Chappell 58, born Halifax, with Judah and a boarder Henry Broadbent, 58 b Halifax, a widowed tailor.
1871 census (in Leeds): Sarah Chappell 68, born Halifax, with Judah and a 5yo grandson George Chappell.

Judah Chappell died in Leeds in July 1871 and Sarah may have returned to Halifax, dying there in 1879 aged 74, but this is not confirmed.

Known children: George 1829 Ovenden (my direct line), John 1832 Ovenden, Ellen 1834 Halifax. There is also a Henry Chappell c1840 on the 1841 census with the Chappells, but his birth has not been found.

Any help with finding Sarah’s birth family would be much appreciated. I hoped the boarder Henry Broadbent in 1861 would easily lead me to Sarah’s background, but he hasn’t done so far!

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