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Messages - Elwyn Soutter

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I think the townland is Inchinlinane, parish of Clondrohid.

Antrim / Re: Ballyvoy townland, Kilbride Parish, Doagh
« on: Yesterday at 10:25 »
Townland names have changed over the years. If you look at Penders Census c 1659, you will find plenty of townland names that are not in use today. There were alternative names for some, subdivision names for parts of some townlands and a wide variety of spelling variations. I have heard experts on Griffiths explain that the clerks tried to standardise the names a bit, and consequently some of the names start to disappear post Griffiths. Some of the subdivision names can be found on maps (as in the case of Douglasland for example) just not in the list of standardised place names use don Griffiths.

Ireland Resources / Re: Irish Travel Permit Card 30's to 40's (ish)
« on: Wednesday 21 February 18 12:50 GMT (UK)  »

Lots on line about the cards but I can't find what department issued them does it say on the card you have?

The article indicates that the Irish Travel Permits (ie those for Irish citizens) were issued by An Garda Siochana (the Irish police). See page 2, penultimate paragraph.  If any records of them survive – and I suspect they don’t, because Irish genealogists would probably be aware of them – then I would expect them to be in the National Archives in Dublin.

From other discussions about these documents elsewhere, my understanding is they were in use from 1939 to about 1950.

The UK issued its citizens with National Identity cards during the war, and they were acceptable for travel to and from Ireland, in lieu of a passport, during the wartime period.

Derry (Londonderry) / Re: Bryan family
« on: Tuesday 20 February 18 20:36 GMT (UK)  »
The 1831 census for Coleraine only lists 1 Bryans family. The household was headed by James Bryans and consisted of 3 males and 2 females, all Church of Ireland (ie Anglican). Perhaps that’s your family?

The Coleraine Church of Ireland baptism, marriage & burial records start in 1769. There’s a copy in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast.

1901 census has just 1 Bryans family in Coleraine:

Chas & wife Sarah Park, married 1898 in Portrush. Both born in Coleraine. His father was John Bryans, a furnace man.

Antrim / Re: 1832 Tithe Applotment Books
« on: Tuesday 20 February 18 17:08 GMT (UK)  »
Hi All
Is there a way to perhaps link the 1832 tithe applotment books for Antrim to a specific farm?
Thanks Will

If the family was still living in the same townland by the time of Griffiths Valuation (c 1860 for Antrim) then the maps that go with it should show you where the farm was.

Australia / Re: Criteria for getting a British Passport
« on: Friday 09 February 18 22:20 GMT (UK)  »
Hi All,

I guess the question now should be not how to get a British Passport but how does one hold British Nationality.  My husband's father was born in England but came to Oz when aged 8 in the 1920s.  Married an Australian but apparently my husband and his Australian born siblings are entitled to British Nationality.  No idea what would happen if they applied for a British passport.  Hopefully hubby doesn't want to become an Australian politician! ::)   


UK nationality legislation has changed many times over the years but in very simple terms, you get nationality by descent by either being born in the UK or by being the child of someone born in the UK.  (You can also acquire nationality through the naturalisation process but I am pretty sure that’s not what you are asking about here).

So for someone born in the UK who moved to Australia and had a child in Australia, that child was entitled to a British passport. But nationality did not pass on to the next generation born in Australia, because that 3rd generation was not born in the UK or have a parent born in the UK.

So yes, your husband and his siblings would appear to be eligible for a British passport if they wanted. The UK has no issues with dual citizenship (and neither does Australia as far as I am aware) and people often have 2 passports for different countries.  Means you can usually go through the “home citizens” passport desks at both ends of your journey without any detailed interviews by nasty immigration officials.

As has been mentioned some countries like the Republic of Ireland allow nationality to go back to grandparents. However the UK does not.  (And I don’t think Australia does either).

Armagh / Re: Drogheda
« on: Monday 05 February 18 08:17 GMT (UK)  »
Can anyone tell me if it is possible to see the mountains of Mourne from Drogheda please ?

Yes. Easily.

Armagh / Re: Liggett/Webb family portadown
« on: Saturday 03 February 18 20:46 GMT (UK)  »
Only children I can see up to 1916 were Maude born 25.7.1910, Samuel born 23.6.1913 and Mary 12.9.1916. Children born after that are not on-line. You need to go to PRONI or GRONI to view them.

Julia in the 1901 census with her parents and siblings:

Julia’s mother in 1911. Note that Julia was one of 11 children, 7 of whom were still alive in 1911.

Wigtownshire / Re: Are You Seeking A Research Challenge?
« on: Saturday 03 February 18 16:27 GMT (UK)  »

I'm of a mind that mother's maiden name was Jane ROBERTSON which is more Scots than ROBINSON. An OPR marriage would prove it!

In Ireland many surnames have several versions. For example, Robertson and Robinson are interchangeable and you often see the name swap from one version to the other in official records depending on the whim of the person recording the information. Another example is Kirkpatrick & Kilpatrick. Falconer/Faulkner is similar. You get the same thing with forenames such as Jean/Jane and Agnes/Ann and Sally/Sarah which are all alternatives.

The Robertsons and Kirpatricks mostly came to Ireland from Scotland and so presumably that naming practice was in use there too.  So Robertson & Robinson could easily both be accurate, because they are one and the same name.

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