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Messages - Microscopia

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Thank you all for your help, it's greatly appreciated.
Merry Christmas! :)


Thanks to everyone for the help given so far.

As promised here is the family, or rather part of the family, I believe is shown in the tintype photo.

Other supporting evidence, not previously given, is that the photo along with other documents and another photo, which I will be shortly posting on the forum were shown to me as being the effects from my late Uncle, who along with my late Father were Grandsons of Richard Simcock & Elizabeth Wilshaw (the older Daughter who I believe is seen standing behind her Mother in the tintype photo. See also marriage cert. below).

I may of course be completely wrong with this, but I believe the tintype photo was taken approx. 1872 and shows the Mother, Mary Ann Wilshaw (nee Curzon) age 39, and two of her Daughters, Charlotte Wilshaw (seated) age 9, and Elizabeth Wilshaw (standing) age 11. All of course give or take a year.

Elizabeth Wilshaw (standing) eventually married Richard Simcock (see marriage cert below) and were parents to my Grandmother (Martha Anne Simcock) and a Son named William Simcock. The tintype photo was accompanied by a memorial headstone photo and another photo (which I previously mentioned) of William Simcock who emigrated along with some of his other Sisters to the USA in the 1920's, where he was eventually buried.

These are the Census records for this family (note the age discrepancy for James Wilshaw):

1861 Census: Stanley Moor, Bagnall, Staffordshire
James Wilshaw.  Head.  Married.  Age 37.  Boatman.  Born Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire
Mary A Wilshaw.  Wife. Age 28.  Born Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire
Mary A Wilshaw.  Daughter.  Age 2.  Born Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire
Joseph Bailer.  Servant.  Age 11.  Servant.  General Servant.  Born Stoke on Trent, Staffordshire

1871 Census: Waterfall, Endon, Staffordshire
James Willshaw.  Head.  Married.  Age 38.  Labourer at Iron Works.  Born Norton, Staffordshire
Mary Ann Willshaw.  Wife.  Age 38.  Born Norton, Staffordshire
Elizabeth Willshaw.  Daughter.  Age 10.  Born Norton, Staffordshire
Charlotte Willshaw.  Daughter.  Age 8.  Born Norton, Staffordshire
Jane Willshaw.  Daughter.  Age 6.  Born Norton, Staffordshire
James Willshaw.  Son.  Age 2.  Born Norton, Staffordshire

1881 Census: Baddeley Green, Norton in the Moors, Leek, Staffordshire
James Wilshaw.  Head.  Married.  Age 58. Occ. Lime Burner  Born Stoke on Trent
Maryann Wilshaw.  Wife.  Married.  Age 50.  Born Shelton High Street
Jane Wilshaw.  Daughter. Age 15.  Born Stanley Mop, Staffordshire [Probably Stanley Moor]
James Wilshaw.  Son.  Age 12.  Born Stanley Mop, Staffordshire [Probably Stanley Moor]

Note: Difficult identifying Maryann's correct first name as it's scribbled over and re-entered. It could be Maryann or Marion. This was where their daughter Elizabeth Wilshaw, Age 21, resided at the time of her wedding to Richard Simcock.

Marriage Cert: 12 April 1880: Parish Church, Norton-le-Moors, Stafford
Richard Simcock, Age 25, Bachelor, a Sticker, Resident at Common St., Shelton. Father's Name: Charles Simcock a Well-Sinker.
Elizabeth Wilshaw, Age 21, Spinster, Resident at Baddeley Green. Father's Name: James Wilshaw a Labourer.

Witnesses: James Mollart & Mary Mollart [See 1881 Census where John & Mary Mollart ages 63 & 66 resp. lived next door but one to Elizabeth Wilshaw's parents at Baddeley Green]

So here's the real test - if the tintype photo shows the Mother, as being Mary Ann Wilshaw (nee Curzon) at the age of 39, then she must be the same person as shown in the other two pictures, estimated to be some 11 years later when she was about 50 years old - what do you think?

Peter thanks for the Info and photo enhancement. I like the wallpaper effect!

Jim1 thanks for explanation about the tintype photos and narrowing the date down a bit. This has also narrowed down the identity to a particular family.

It's looking good for a match, but before I'm completely happy with it, an approximation of their ages would be appreciated (I am terrible at judging female ages). If these estimations tie in with the ages given on the 1871 Census for the family I think they're from, then I will be reasonably satisfied about the identity. I won't give the family name and address on the 1871 Census until afterwards, as I wouldn't wish to influence their age estimations ;)


loord74 thanks for the photo enhancement, it certainly reveals their facial expressions more.

Jen Itís amazing how someone else notices things that another person does not, or takes for granted, like the hands on the shoulders you mentioned - thanks for your observations and suggested date.


Apologies in advance for the poor quality of the photograph.

However, they say the best camera is the one you have with you at the time, unfortunately in this case it was an ageing mini-iPad at the time I was shown some documents and photos, one of which was this tintype, presumably of some of my ancestors.

If anyone can help date the photo, together with any other useful observations however small, will all help in identifying the possible names. I am unable to provide any further information than what is shown here, only to say that it would have been taken in the Staffordshire Potteries area or immediate vicinity.


Staffordshire / Re: Mary Ann Curzon/James Wilshaw Canal Boatman, Stoke Upon Trent
« on: Wednesday 20 December 17 07:55 GMT (UK)  »
I was wondering if you wanted to post the picture on the Date and Restore forum. Someone may be able to date the picture from the style of clothing. It may give you an accurate date and you may be able to ascertain who the person in the picure is...just a thought


Hi Chris,

Thanks for the suggestion, but had been posted there back in 2012

Dated as 1880ís which in fact matches estimated date of its ornate frame.

Their comments about photo colouring or overpainting can now be ignored due to the discovery of the B&W photo which although of similar pose, etc, is different in many other respects, such as size and shape of face and other features, although her rings, the chair, cabinet are all similar, suggesting a painting made from the photo.

I am becoming more confident that this is a portrait of my GGGM Mary Ann Curzon rather than my GGM Elizabeth Wilshaw which my USA distant relatives believe it is; as the former would have been 47 years old, whilst the latter only 19 years old at the estimated date of the portrait. But, of course, as with all these genealogical things there is another possibility that it is my GGGM from another line  :-\   Hence the continued search for the painter named ĎWiltoní, which if successful, may provide a further clue.


Staffordshire / Re: Mary Ann Curzon/James Wilshaw Canal Boatman, Stoke Upon Trent
« on: Saturday 16 December 17 16:55 GMT (UK)  »
My family come from Etruria Hanley Stoke on Trent and we had and have many artists in the family. I will ask my cousin for you.

That looks interesting, especially given the location

Since my original post, I have discovered a matching black & white portrait photo which was posted online from a USA descendant of my Grandmother, Martha Ann Barker's (nee Simcock) Brother, Richard Simcock, who emigrated to the USA c1920. They assumed that it was Richard Simcock's Mother, Elizabeth Wilshaw b1861 Trent Vale who was living at 52 Ogden Road, Stone, Staffs. at the age of 50; rather than his Grandmother Mary Ann Curzon b1833 Stoke-On-Trent, who was living at Baddeley Green, Norton in the Moors, Leek, Staffordshire, at the age of 48.

The puzzle deepens.

So, trying to identify the painter named 'Wilton' (or photographic colourist, which I think unlikely due to the artistic quality), makes it even more crucial in order to identify whether a GGGM or a GGM.


Edited: Have since compared the painting to the photo, they are different, with the painting made from the photo, so we're definitely looking for a painter named 'Wilton', and not a photo-colourist.

Staffordshire / Re: Mary Ann Curzon/James Wilshaw Canal Boatman, Stoke Upon Trent
« on: Thursday 12 April 12 19:53 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Deb - it's a bit of a long shot, given the difference in locations, but I will do some research on their names to see what turns up!


Staffordshire / Re: Mary Ann Curzon/James Wilshaw Canal Boatman, Stoke Upon Trent
« on: Wednesday 11 April 12 09:40 BST (UK)  »
Has anyone come across the name 'WILTON' during the 1880's (around the 1833 mark), with occupation either 'artist', 'colourman', painter or even 'photographer' ?
I've had a look through various online trade journals, but couldn't find anything matching!


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