1
Lancashire / Re: Unknown Lancashire town
« on: Tuesday 16 May 23 06:06 BST (UK) »
Thank you everyone for your sage responses 
Show Posts
This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
2
Lancashire / Unknown Lancashire town
« on: Monday 15 May 23 11:15 BST (UK) »
Evening,
My ancestor Ann Rose (1835-1903), went to live with her uncle John Rose and his wife Jane Rose in Heaton Norris, Stockport according to the 1851 Census (attached) after her father George Rose died in 1840. 'Where born' for John Rose, looks like Sambury, Lancashire. However, I cannot find a town called Sambury in Lancashire.
Is it Sambury, or could it be some other town?
Thanks in advance for your help
My ancestor Ann Rose (1835-1903), went to live with her uncle John Rose and his wife Jane Rose in Heaton Norris, Stockport according to the 1851 Census (attached) after her father George Rose died in 1840. 'Where born' for John Rose, looks like Sambury, Lancashire. However, I cannot find a town called Sambury in Lancashire.
Is it Sambury, or could it be some other town?
Thanks in advance for your help
3
Australia / Re: World's Matrimonial Institute Theophilus CAROLUS
« on: Saturday 25 June 22 12:11 BST (UK) »
How wonderful is Rootschat, that I can find lots more on Theophilus Carolus, 5 years after this original post. Thank you
And to add to the mystery of the workings of the World Matrimonial Agency, 471 Pitt St, Sydney, my great grandparents John Fahey (50) and Amy Elizabeth Dale (32) (both single) were married there 23 July 1900. He Catholic, she Protestant. He from Reids Flat (Boorowa), she from Woollahra. By this stage they had 4 children, only 1 registered as 'Unknown DALE'.
Presiding over the marriage was Seraphim Phocas (Greek Orthodox Priest), Witnesses Theophilus CAROLUS and Joice JONES.
The Agency seems the only place these two could be joined as husband and wife, given the complexity of their life together thus far!
And to add to the mystery of the workings of the World Matrimonial Agency, 471 Pitt St, Sydney, my great grandparents John Fahey (50) and Amy Elizabeth Dale (32) (both single) were married there 23 July 1900. He Catholic, she Protestant. He from Reids Flat (Boorowa), she from Woollahra. By this stage they had 4 children, only 1 registered as 'Unknown DALE'.
Presiding over the marriage was Seraphim Phocas (Greek Orthodox Priest), Witnesses Theophilus CAROLUS and Joice JONES.
The Agency seems the only place these two could be joined as husband and wife, given the complexity of their life together thus far!
4
Cumberland / Re: Parents of John Kirkpatrick (1851-1881)
« on: Friday 14 January 22 04:07 GMT (UK) »
Thanks rosie99. Yet another great find. Again thinking and searching laterally. Rosy and her married older sister Ellen, and their babies are in the family home, without their husbands. I wonder where they were? William is a weaver - maybe close by.
You and robbiesmum have helped me forge ahead with this family.
Thanks
You and robbiesmum have helped me forge ahead with this family.
Thanks
5
Cumberland / Re: Parents of John Kirkpatrick (1851-1881)
« on: Wednesday 12 January 22 10:18 GMT (UK) »
Thank you - so quick and so clever!
Thanks Rosie99, I do believe Thomas is another son to Rosanna and William
Thanks robbiesmum, for thinking outside the square. This is something I need to practice, and not be so literal with my searching. No Workhouses for this family.
Thanks Rosie99, I do believe Thomas is another son to Rosanna and William
Thanks robbiesmum, for thinking outside the square. This is something I need to practice, and not be so literal with my searching. No Workhouses for this family.
6
Cumberland / Parents of John Kirkpatrick (1851-1881)
« on: Wednesday 12 January 22 06:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi Brainstrust,
Further information of my 2 x G Grandfather John Kirkpatrick's parents are proving illusive, and I would like some help please if you can!
From his birth certificate, I have:
- Mother, Rosanna (Nee Short), Father, William - Weaver
- Born 28 Feb 1851, Irish Damside, Carlisle, Cumberland
From his death certificate, I have:
- Died 26 Nov 1881, The Village Dalston, 'with brother George in attendance' noted
- Wife Mary (nee Beaty) and 3 children living with him (1881 Census)
From the 1871 Census, I have
- Rosannah Kirkpatrick (Head), Widowed, 48, Bobbin winder, born Upperby
- 4 children listed - William (b.1846), George (b.1848), Margaret (b.1853) & Sarah (b.1855). All children born in Carlisle, Cumberland
- living in The Village, Dalston
I have searched 1841, 51, 61, 81 census records for any version of Rosanna Kirkpatrick or Short, in Cumberland, but with no result. I cannot find any marriage record for William and Rosanna. Nor a birth record for Rosanna in Upperby, Cumberland.
There are possible Workhouse records for William (1851, Botchergate) and John, Margaret (Ada) and Sarah (1861, Eamont Bridge Workhouse), which could be this family.
Could you suggest any other avenues I could explore to locate information on Rosanna and William Kirkpatrick, for the years other than 1871?
Many Thanks
Catherine
Further information of my 2 x G Grandfather John Kirkpatrick's parents are proving illusive, and I would like some help please if you can!
From his birth certificate, I have:
- Mother, Rosanna (Nee Short), Father, William - Weaver
- Born 28 Feb 1851, Irish Damside, Carlisle, Cumberland
From his death certificate, I have:
- Died 26 Nov 1881, The Village Dalston, 'with brother George in attendance' noted
- Wife Mary (nee Beaty) and 3 children living with him (1881 Census)
From the 1871 Census, I have
- Rosannah Kirkpatrick (Head), Widowed, 48, Bobbin winder, born Upperby
- 4 children listed - William (b.1846), George (b.1848), Margaret (b.1853) & Sarah (b.1855). All children born in Carlisle, Cumberland
- living in The Village, Dalston
I have searched 1841, 51, 61, 81 census records for any version of Rosanna Kirkpatrick or Short, in Cumberland, but with no result. I cannot find any marriage record for William and Rosanna. Nor a birth record for Rosanna in Upperby, Cumberland.
There are possible Workhouse records for William (1851, Botchergate) and John, Margaret (Ada) and Sarah (1861, Eamont Bridge Workhouse), which could be this family.
Could you suggest any other avenues I could explore to locate information on Rosanna and William Kirkpatrick, for the years other than 1871?
Many Thanks
Catherine
7
Warwickshire / Re: Swan Hotel in Birmingham
« on: Monday 18 October 21 08:20 BST (UK) »
Thanks maddys52, I agree:
It seems strange to me that if your William and Mary married in Shoreditch and had their children there, that she would be asking for support from Birmingham Workhouse.
Thanks hanes teulu, I also agree:
Cannot spot a William Kiss death/burial that might "fit" the William linked with Margaret and son Thomas.
A scandalous thought, could be William, had women in 2 towns, both had sons which they called Thomas (both born in 1791), but then William leaves Margaret in Birmingham for Mary in Holborn??? Marriage cert with Mary, states him as bachelor. Maybe he never married Margaret.
Maybe we'll never know. Thanks for your help
It seems strange to me that if your William and Mary married in Shoreditch and had their children there, that she would be asking for support from Birmingham Workhouse.
Thanks hanes teulu, I also agree:
Cannot spot a William Kiss death/burial that might "fit" the William linked with Margaret and son Thomas.
A scandalous thought, could be William, had women in 2 towns, both had sons which they called Thomas (both born in 1791), but then William leaves Margaret in Birmingham for Mary in Holborn??? Marriage cert with Mary, states him as bachelor. Maybe he never married Margaret.
Maybe we'll never know. Thanks for your help
8
Warwickshire / Re: Swan Hotel in Birmingham
« on: Wednesday 13 October 21 05:57 BST (UK) »
Thanks Maddy52 and Jool - I will also bookmark this resource - very useful!
So William (1734-1779) and Mary, had 8 children, with the eldest Thomas (b. 1754), who married Sarah Heath. My direct descend was the 8th child James (1768-1853) - convict - sentenced to transportation for stealing a hat. (First Kiss in Australia).
Thomas and Sarah had a son, William Daniel Kiss - born Kenilworth 1776 - the solicitor.
So in regard to the 1791 'William Kifs, chaser and buckle maker, about 5 feet 8 inches high, about 28 years old, slender made, brown hair tied, fresh complexion, two or three scars on his forehead; supposed to be in London'...this could be William (1763-1836). He married Mary Hadnot in 1789, Shoreditch, London.
Could he have been on the run for 2yrs? Living with 2 families for a while? Need to find 1st marriage cert to prove this.
Thoughts?
So William (1734-1779) and Mary, had 8 children, with the eldest Thomas (b. 1754), who married Sarah Heath. My direct descend was the 8th child James (1768-1853) - convict - sentenced to transportation for stealing a hat. (First Kiss in Australia).
Thomas and Sarah had a son, William Daniel Kiss - born Kenilworth 1776 - the solicitor.
So in regard to the 1791 'William Kifs, chaser and buckle maker, about 5 feet 8 inches high, about 28 years old, slender made, brown hair tied, fresh complexion, two or three scars on his forehead; supposed to be in London'...this could be William (1763-1836). He married Mary Hadnot in 1789, Shoreditch, London.
Could he have been on the run for 2yrs? Living with 2 families for a while? Need to find 1st marriage cert to prove this.
Thoughts?
9
Warwickshire / Re: Swan Hotel in Birmingham
« on: Tuesday 12 October 21 23:55 BST (UK) »
Thanks Colin for the maps and maddys52 & hanes teulu for extra sleuthing on the Kiss family. It certainly gets confusing when there are multiple William's in the same family. I have found:
- William Kiss (1701-1762) and Susan (nee Carter). His Will notes living in 58 Steelhouse Lane
- their son - William Kiss (1734-1779) and Mary (I have very little info on her). They have 8 children. Multiple Trade Directories as Publican at 84 Dale End (1770,1774,1775) & 1767 at Swan, Lower Priory. The 1777 entry as Button Maker (at Steelhouse Lane) should be this William, as his father is deceased and son is only 14.
- their son - William Kiss (1763-1836) and Mary (nee Hadnot). They are married in Shoreditch, London.
I have found from Chapman's Birmingham Directory, 1800, William Daniel Kiss, 19, Moor street, Birmingham, as solicitor. Should be related, but not sure how.
This last William (1763-1836) could be the runaway, makes him 28 in 1791.
Any ideas?
Thanks
- William Kiss (1701-1762) and Susan (nee Carter). His Will notes living in 58 Steelhouse Lane
- their son - William Kiss (1734-1779) and Mary (I have very little info on her). They have 8 children. Multiple Trade Directories as Publican at 84 Dale End (1770,1774,1775) & 1767 at Swan, Lower Priory. The 1777 entry as Button Maker (at Steelhouse Lane) should be this William, as his father is deceased and son is only 14.
- their son - William Kiss (1763-1836) and Mary (nee Hadnot). They are married in Shoreditch, London.
I have found from Chapman's Birmingham Directory, 1800, William Daniel Kiss, 19, Moor street, Birmingham, as solicitor. Should be related, but not sure how.
This last William (1763-1836) could be the runaway, makes him 28 in 1791.
Any ideas?
Thanks