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Messages - Brickwall Demolisher

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1
United States of America / Re: FLORENCE ( Nuzum / Newsum )SADDLER / ROBERT LEE BAKER.
« on: Thursday 03 March 22 09:41 GMT (UK)  »
Many, Many Thanks
 For everyone's help with my posting and with the results that you have provided me with. My wondering of Florence's life from the 1910 Census you all have helped to answer for me. The not finding of a Marriage Certificate for herself and Robert Lee Baker - I assuming that a Marriage never ever did happen?. Florence unknowing to herself, was repeating of what her Grandfather did by not Marrying her true Grandmother in the 1850's?.
Florence was born 1889 Southwark, - Father Alfred Wentzell b1856 - English Mother  - Charlotte (Wannell) Wentzell b1861 who Married Alfred in 1879.
Alfred took his Mother's maiden name of SAD(D)LER when he came /went to America in 1896 - Newsom/Nuzum was his partners surname who brought Florence and two Brothers? to America in 1897.  - Alfred/Charlotte eldest English son Henry / Harry b1882, my Grandfather, was born Southwark. - I don't have any info if ever Sister/ Brother ever met again after they parted in 1897?
Col. Arthur Lee Baker b 1917- It's Interesting to see that he served some years of his American Navy Career in the Pacific of the 1940's. - The American born Grandson of Alfred Wentzell / Charlotte ( Wannell ) Wentzell
Alfred / Charlotte English Son HENRY b1882 served in the Battle of the Somme, Theatre of War 1914 / 1918. -

 It was the finding of Florence's future that you have helped me with, again many thanks to all, Best Regards,JUST J






2
United States of America / FLORENCE ( Nuzum / Newsum )SADDLER / ROBERT LEE BAKER.
« on: Wednesday 02 March 22 14:18 GMT (UK)  »
Hi, Thank you for looking at my posting, not sure if anyone can help,
I have been trying to find a Marriage Certificate for the above.
FLORENCE who was born London, England Sept 1889. Came to America 1897.
On the 1910 Census - aged 11 with brother's EDWARD H(ENRY),and CHARLES.- Mother HARRIET and Father ALFRED SAD(D)LER.
My past research had not shown/found anything at all on FLORENCE.- 2 Children are born to FLORENCE, one in 1915 EUGENE RUSSELL BAKER, and one in 1917 ARTHUR LEE BAKER, in Iona, Pend Orielle County, Washington. Again not found or sure if there ever was a Marriage between FLORENCE SA(D)DLER & ROBERT LEE BAKER - Past research by me from here in England has always produced nothing.
The Family all but ARTHUR LEE BAKER are also buried at Iona, Pend Orielle County. Wash.
The Find a Grave site has been very helpful to me with my research and its how I came across FLORENCE SADDLER BAKER only recently after searching for a few years with no results until now.
I'm also assuming that because of her age of being only 16 / 17 when she gave birth to EUGENE RUSSELL they held back on Marrying and never got to doing so.
Thanking you in advance if you are able to help. Best Regards JUST J

3
London & Middlesex Resources / Re: Re :-ELLEN BOYCE Lincolnshire B1841
« on: Wednesday 12 January 22 13:42 GMT (UK)  »
Many Thanks everyone. Regards Just J.

4
London & Middlesex Resources / Re :-ELLEN BOYCE Lincolnshire B1841
« on: Wednesday 12 January 22 09:43 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you for looking at my post?
Help needed with the finding of a ELLEN BOYCE born 1841  Colsterworth, Lincolnshire aged 20 as the 1861 Census R.G 9/ 164/ Parish--South Hackney/ Borough --Tower Hamlets / Ecc.District - South Hackney /Page 181 or 187 ??.
The Head Family of the Household ( Abbott's ) are being visited by two other family's ( 2 Wentzell / 1 Boyce ) children. These three children are all entered as Niece's. I have found further records for all but for ELLEN BOYCE, Aged 20 ?supposedly born 1841?, Colsterworth, Lincolnshire. Thank you in advance if anyone is able to help with any further information on ELLEN, Best Regards to all, Just J

5
London & Middlesex Resources / Re: M.C is hard to find ???
« on: Sunday 02 January 22 08:18 GMT (UK)  »
Firstly Happy New Year to one and all,

Thank you to all for looking at my post and the information that you all have found. It's much appreciated. All very good researching, certainly have something's to work on from you all.
    Stay safe / Best Regards Just J

6
London & Middlesex Resources / M.C is hard to find ???
« on: Friday 31 December 21 11:04 GMT (UK)  »
Hi, Many thanks for reading my post.

Between the 1851 & 1861 Censuses, three individuals leave the household.
Two Daughters aged 16 and 8 and one Son Aged 14. All children of my Great, Great, Great, Great Grandmother.

The eldest Daughter, ( CHARLOTTE ( b 1833 ) is in Liverpool giving birth to her first Son in 1854 and also gives birth to her second Son in 1856 in the Liverpool area.

The youngest Daughter ( b 1843 Lambeth ) is in Greenwich, Kent and Marries there in 1867. Future Censuses have her continuing to live in Kent.

1861 Census - The Mother was widowed between 1841 / 1851 and has been the
Head of Household since.
Her eldest Son ( CHARLES b 1833 ) is now Head of Household on the 1861 Census. He has Married, his wife is twelve years older than himself??. Future Censuses have them living in Lewisham.

My problem - I have hit a Brickwall as to what has happened to the third child HENRY SADLER Born 1837.LAMBETH
I have not been able to find anything on HENRY at all. A marriage certificate was what I was hoping for.
Their Father was JOSEPH SADLER b 1802 ?? and his occupation was CARPENTER

Much appreciated if there is there anyone who is able to help on finding HENRY SADLER, Born LAMBETH, SURREY 1837

Census Ref - H0107 / Piece 1572 / Folio 67 / Page 27

7
The Common Room / Re: Brickwall on Armerican arrival, 1877 -1881?
« on: Thursday 09 December 21 09:36 GMT (UK)  »
Christine 53 Hi
 Thank you very much for the information that you have supplied to my post
I and a American family member are in agreement that this H.W is most likely our Ancestors time of arrival from the English side of the Atlantic.
 Are / can you tell me where from you acquired this information please.?
   Best Regards JUST J.



Quote from: Christine53 on Monday 05 April 21 12:02 BST (UK)
This could be him :

Hy Wentzell 26 b abt 1855
dep Liverpool
arr Quebec 2 May 1881
ship : Polynesian

8
The Common Room / Re: Brickwall on Armerican arrival, 1877 -1881?
« on: Thursday 25 November 21 12:01 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: Brickwall Demolisher on Thursday 25 November 21 11:58 GMT (UK)
Quote from: tivokatya on Wednesday 17 November 21 19:47 GMT (UK)
I'm descended from Harry Wentzell Saddler's oldest son, Perry. Any light that can be shed on this bizarre family would be so greatly appreciated.

I think it's likely that Harry's grandfather, not his father, was lost at sea.

 ***** Upto yet there is no Wentzell record found of any person dying/being lost at sea?

  Harry's Grandfather, if it was Albert Wentzell as the Father,would have been 
  JAMES JOHN WENTZELL b 1816. d 1863

  No birth certificate has yet been found on HARRY b 1854-Liverpool-Oct 28

  I have an understanding that JAMES JOHN WENTZELL could also be 
  HARRY's Father. As we have not ( yet ?) located a B.C for HARRY b 1854, but
  what we do have is B.C for ALFRED who was born 1856/7. 
 
  This certificate shows a JAMES WENTZELL as ALFRED's Father.?
  If JAMES JOHN was the Father of HARRY -- GOTTLEIP ( JOHN ) WENTZELL, who
  died in 1841, Cripplegate, would then be HARRY's  Great Gandfather instead.

  HARRY's obituary I do take it as being totally false / misleading ??

  Again taking into account of who the Father is, is JAMES WENTZELL the JAMES
  JOHN WENTZELL b 1816 or is he the son JAMES THOMAS WENTZELL who was
  born 1837
  JAMES THOMAS WENTZELL began a 20 year Army in 1858. He was discharged 
  from service in 1878.
  When discharged from his 20 year device, JAMES THOMAS Marries a SARAH
  WILSON in Hounslow,Middx.
  Their Marriage Certificate has his Father entered as JAMES THOMAS WENTZELL
   and not JAMES JOHN ??

  ALFRED's b.c details are the only document details that has a JAMES WENTZELL 
  as his/their Father ?? ****

 
as listed on the 1861, 1871, and 1881 UK Census as being a fireman on a steam boat. Albert's father, James John Wentzell was a marine engineer and died in 1863. I can't find a death record for Albert, and there's a widowed Albert Wentzell living in the poorhouse in the 1901 and 1911 Census records. His profession is "stoker." If this is our Albert, he definitely didn't go down with the ship.

Here's Harry's obituary. Take it with large grains of salt. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Wentzell-127

9
The Common Room / Re: Brickwall on Armerican arrival, 1877 -1881?
« on: Thursday 25 November 21 11:58 GMT (UK)  »
Quote from: tivokatya on Wednesday 17 November 21 19:47 GMT (UK)
I'm descended from Harry Wentzell Saddler's oldest son, Perry. Any light that can be shed on this bizarre family would be so greatly appreciated.

I think it's likely that Harry's grandfather, not his father, was lost at sea.

 ***** Upto yet there is no Wentzell record found of any person dying/being lost at sea?

  Harry's Grandfather, if it was Albert Wentzell as the Father,would have been 
  JAMES JOHN WENTZELL b 1816. d 1863

  No birth certificate has yet been found on HARRY b 1854-Liverpool-Oct 28

  I have an understanding that JAMES JOHN WENTZELL could also be 
  HARRY's Father. As we have not ( yet ?) located a B.C for HARRY b 1854, but
  what we do have is B.C for ALFRED who was born 1856/7. 
 
  This certificate shows a JAMES WENTZELL as ALFRED's Father.?
  If JAMES JOHN was the Father of HARRY -- GOTTLEIP ( JOHN ) WENTZELL, who
  died in 1841, Cripplegate, would then be HARRY's  Great Gandfather instead.

  HARRY's obituary I do take it as being totally false / misleading ??

  Again taking into account of who the Father is, is JAMES WENTZELL the JAMES
  JOHN WENTZELL b 1816 or is he the son JAMES THOMAS WENTZELL who was
  born 1837
  JAMES THOMAS WENTZELL began a 20 year Army in 1858. He was discharged 
  from service in 1878.
  When discharged from his 20 year device, JAMES THOMAS Marries a SARAH
  WILSON in Hounslow,Middx.
  Their Marriage Certificate has his Father entered ass JAMES THOMAS WENTZELL
   and not JAMES JOHN ??

  ALFRED's b.c details are the only document details that has a JAMES WENTZELL 
  as his/their Father ?? ****

 
as listed on the 1861, 1871, and 1881 UK Census as being a fireman on a steam boat. Albert's father, James John Wentzell was a marine engineer and died in 1863. I can't find a death record for Albert, and there's a widowed Albert Wentzell living in the poorhouse in the 1901 and 1911 Census records. His profession is "stoker." If this is our Albert, he definitely didn't go down with the ship.

Here's Harry's obituary. Take it with large grains of salt. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Wentzell-127

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