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Messages - Elliebean54

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1
Family History Beginners Board / Re: London Jewish Hospital
« on: Sunday 07 March 21 14:59 GMT (UK)  »
Thank you everyone for your replies and the links.

I’ve spoken to my mother and she knows no family history related to what hospital she was in. We know how she died though - she fractured her leg falling on the stairs. No one realised it was broken she carried on walking on it and it the bone became inflamed and infected. It was chronic not acute, family visited her in hospital. They were the poorest of the poor I don’t see choice coming into it?

I have though found out there was a full inquest into her death which my mother also didn’t know (verdict -accidental) so the coroner’s report might have a more complete story

Thanks again for your replies

2
Family History Beginners Board / London Jewish Hospital
« on: Saturday 06 March 21 22:44 GMT (UK)  »
Hi everyone

I wonder if anyone has any information about the London Jewish Hospital? Or where I can find any records?

I’ve unearthed a bit of a mystery - my mother’s older sister died there as a child in 1936. The biggest mystery is why she was there instead of the nearby London Hospital used by the rest of the family? My family were not Jewish though they lived in the East End and many of their closest friends and neighbours were. I’ve tried googling it and it seems it was specifically built to serve the local Jewish community so any ideas why a non Jewish child would end up there?

3
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« on: Wednesday 18 November 20 13:04 GMT (UK)  »
Back to typhoid - I’ve fine some digging as it was a legally notifiable disease and found some detailed online records regarding her home parish of Limehouse.
It lists numbers of people from the parish (specifically including those from who belonged to the parish but died elsewhere) who died of communicable disease and when.
Although 21 died of typhoid in 1899 no case was recorded as being contracted in the parish in April or May and she died 12th May. So it at least answers my question for whatever reason she wasn’t living at home when she died

I have a number of questions relating to my Great Grandmother Mary Ann Palmer. She’s been the toughest brick wall for various members of my family researching over many years. I feel like she destined to only ever create more questions than answers.

I finally found her death certificate and she died of typhoid in a fever hospital in London in 1899. However there’s some unanswered questions still:

1. She was in the wrong part of London - there was a fever hospital in her doorstep in the East End yet she died in South London. Is there any reason a typhoid patient would be moved across the city or does it suggest she must have been in South London when she got infected?

2. Related to this no one else in her family got it - she had 5 young children at home and none were infected? Is that plausible? Does this also suggest she wasn’t at home when infected? My understanding is it was highly contagious

3. Her infant son (18m) died of chronic malnutrition 2 weeks after her death in a general infirmary in the East End near the family home, yet the family were not so impoverished that the children should have starved. Again does this suggest she wasn’t around to care for him?

You can probably see where I’m going with this. There’s no underlying health conditions recorded on her death certificate.

Does it seem logical to anyone else that she had left the family home? Can anyone come up with another explanation?

Any input gratefully received

4
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« on: Tuesday 17 November 20 15:26 GMT (UK)  »
There is a long thread about Mary Ann here
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=784979.msg6400106

Thanks for posting that :) the informations on there for anyone who wants to look at her again with fresh eyes, though some of it might need to be updated - I’m on my way into work so I can’t read through it now.

I was about to say there’s another thread re her identity somewhere on here from a while back - this was originally more about looking for information about typhoid and the circumstances around her death

5
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« on: Tuesday 17 November 20 14:48 GMT (UK)  »
Oh dear,not a great deal to go on really with the details you have

Tell me about it!

To add in more confusion she’s recorded on the marriage certificate and 1891 census as Mary Ann, family history said no one called her Mary or Ann but something else, later records including her death certificate show Elizabeth Mary or Mary Elizabeth and the Ann disappears completely  :-\

At least in finding her death (certificate with husband name/occupation/address that proves it was her) we know she actually died roughly when she was supposed to, when until recently because of the name & age change - and it turns out wrong area of London as well - we didn’t even know that for sure. It’s been a long old road

6
Family History Beginners Board / Re: Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« on: Tuesday 17 November 20 14:09 GMT (UK)  »
Have you got her marriage certificate which would, or should show her father's name and perhaps witnesses that might be family members

Louisa Maud

Yes we’ve actually got the original and it gives her alleged fathers name (Peter Palmer) but there’s no record of anyone of that name having a daughter of her name anywhere near that age/place.
The closest I’ve got is an uncle who was living with his brothers family and had a niece of roughly the right age who is my working hypothesis but I literally have 5 trees with different versions of who she could have been.

My hypothesis means she was 38 when she died, her marriage certificate suggests she would have been 32/33 when she died, her death certificate says she was 28, the 1891 census suggests she would have been 30  ???

To add complications the DNA suggests she must have had Hispanic and Roma background so she may have been moving around. We know from what both her husband and children looked like she was certainly very dark.

7
Family History Beginners Board / Typhoid and my Great Grandmother
« on: Tuesday 17 November 20 13:47 GMT (UK)  »
Hello everyone

Please feel free to move if this is the wrong place to post

I have a number of questions relating to my Great Grandmother Mary Ann Palmer. She’s been the toughest brick wall for various members of my family researching over many years. I feel like she destined to only ever create more questions than answers.

I finally found her death certificate and she died of typhoid in a fever hospital in London in 1899. However there’s some unanswered questions still:

1. She was in the wrong part of London - there was a fever hospital in her doorstep in the East End yet she died in South London. Is there any reason a typhoid patient would be moved across the city or does it suggest she must have been in South London when she got infected?

2. Related to this no one else in her family got it - she had 5 young children at home and none were infected? Is that plausible? Does this also suggest she wasn’t at home when infected? My understanding is it was highly contagious

3. Her infant son (18m) died of chronic malnutrition 2 weeks after her death in a general infirmary in the East End near the family home, yet the family were not so impoverished that the children should have starved. Again does this suggest she wasn’t around to care for him?

You can probably see where I’m going with this. There’s no underlying health conditions recorded on her death certificate.

Does it seem logical to anyone else that she had left the family home? Can anyone come up with another explanation?

A final point we still aren’t certain who she was. Every official record suggests a different age (birth 1860-1872). How common was it for age to be recorded so incorrectly at this time?

Any input gratefully received


8
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help deciphering certificates
« on: Saturday 07 November 20 15:24 GMT (UK)  »
Maybe he was being breastfed and the Mum was malnourished, she wouldn't know that it would affect the child or how much nourishment he was getting. Mothers often were the worse fed in lean times  :-\
Carol

That’s very true. It’s also got to be significant he died 11 days after his mother was buried - she has such a common name we’re still tracking down her death certificate to get an exact date and cause of death. But other burials all seem to happen within a week so I’m guessing she died (also in an infirmary) 2-3 weeks before he did suggesting she may not have been in a position to feed or care for him properly.

It’s heart breaking really. He was my grandmothers younger brother and her dad made such a good and devoted job of raising the 4 young children he was left with on his own and always spoke openly about the child he lost which in itself was unusual at a time when most other infants were never spoken about again. It’s awful to think he just wasted away. The certificate says his father was with him when he died :(

9
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Help deciphering certificates
« on: Saturday 07 November 20 14:19 GMT (UK)  »
Marasmus - severe malnutrition.

Thank you

That’s quite brutal I can only think he must have had some underlying condition that interfered with his ability to eat or digest his food. He was 18months old 1890s but although they were fairly poor they weren’t in abject poverty and he had 4 healthy siblings alive at this time who weren’t starved as kids or have to spend time in the workhouse like quite a few of my ancestors did. Poor mite

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