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Messages - MattD30

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1
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Places in Will of Thomas Keene
« on: Tuesday 22 May 18 00:38 BST (UK)  »
I am hoping someone here can help me with some place names in this extract from the Will of Thomas Keene of Wroughton, Wiltshire (dated 1686).

In the first and second line there is a reference to land at what looks like "Eaton ____ als Church Eaton" Can anyone confirm what this place is called and is there a place called Church Eaton?

In the third and fourth line there is what look like a reference to land in "Dounton". Can anyone confirm the place name and where it is?

Any help would be appreciated.

Matt

2
Gloucestershire / Re: Does anyone know where these places are?
« on: Friday 04 May 18 00:56 BST (UK)  »
Hi Matt
His wife is also Anne, John signed the will.  Witnesses are Nicholas Leydell (signed), looks like Richard Shummer / Shurmer (also signed), and Anne Shummer (made her Mark "X").  No other beneficiaries, just the wife & 2 daughters.

The inventory was made by William Greene of Minety, and Richard Summer of Upton in Gloucestershire, both were Yeoman (as was John Rayman)

Jane

Hi Jane

That all looks very interesting, and may lead us somewhere. Can you email me a copy of the Will so I can look at the signatures? I think I have seen a couple of the names before.

I have found several Wills for Shu[r]mer/Shummer/Su[r]mer/Summer [and other spellings] on the National Archives website and there are a lot of christenings in the parish of Purton, Gloucestershire. There is a christening for a Richard Shurmer in Purton in 1620 (son of John). His father appears to have had another son named William christened in Purton in 1622.

Also there is a marriage in Purton in 1584 between a John Rymer and an Alice Greene. I think this might be worth investigating as John might be an ancestor of John Raymer/Rayman and Alice could be related to William Greene. They might not be connected but I think it is something to check.

Now the really interesting bit.....

You mentioned that one of the witnesses to John Rymer's 1663 Will was a Nicholas Leydell. I think that this is actually Nicholas Playdell. The interesting thing is that I have seen that name before in connection with the Keene family but I will need to check my notes to see where. The other interesting thing is that Nicholas appears to have left a Will in 1664 (proved in the PCC). I plan to examine that tomorrow as it might give more info about the Rymer/Raymer line.

Lastly I thought I would give you an update about the family of John and Jane Keene. Based on the info in their Wills and the Wills of other related people I have established that they had 6 children. These were:

Thomas Keene - the eldest son [died in Wrougton and left a Will]
Barnard/Bernard Keene - the second son [married Mary Woodroofe in 1667. He left a Will]
Silvester Keene - the third son [from whom I descend]
Dorothy Keene - daughter
John Keene - son
Elizabeth Keene - daughter

I have copies of the Wills of Jane, Barnard, and Thomas Keene as well as the Will of Mary Keene (widow of Barnard). I'll send you details regarding these tomorrow.

That's all for now. I will PM you with my email address.

Matt

3
Gloucestershire / Re: Does anyone know where these places are?
« on: Wednesday 02 May 18 20:11 BST (UK)  »
Hi Matt
Going from the marriage licence of 1671, she was born about 1650 - and married with the consent of her mother - so presume her father was already deceased.  I found a will for John Rayman 1663 of Minety (ancestry Wiltshire wills), he mentions his 2 daughters Ann & Sarah - this is probably her, but as no registers survive for 1650 it is not possible to be 100% sure.
Best regards
Jane

Hi Jane

I've just come across a burial for an Anne Rayman in Minety, Wiltshire on 29 November 1668. This could be the Anne mentioned in the Will, or another relative.

In his Will does John mention a wife, or any other people? Who are the witnesses?

Matt

4
Gloucestershire / Re: Does anyone know where these places are?
« on: Wednesday 02 May 18 00:24 BST (UK)  »
Thanks Matt, good we both got to the same place!  Proves we are on the right track.

Hi Jane

I will email you a GEDCOM file tomorrow. In the meantime do you know anything about Sarah Rymer/Rymon or Alethea Skinner? I think I have Alethea's family worked out but it would be good to compare with anything you know.

Matt

5
Gloucestershire / Re: Does anyone know where these places are?
« on: Monday 30 April 18 23:08 BST (UK)  »
Hi Matt


I have the following:

1) John & Jane
               
2) Silvester  (abt 1651)& Sarah Rymer(Rymon) - married 1671
                                   
3) John 1672 married Mary Wayt 1701
                                 
4) Silvester 1702 married Alethea Skinner 1729
                                 
5) Thomas 1733 married Susannah Powell 1769
                                   
6) John 1770 married Mary Cullen

Best regards
Jane

Hi Jane

Just a quick message here as I will send you a GEDCOM tomorrow. I have exactly the same up to the last line:

1) John & Jane
               
2) Silvester  (abt 1651)& Sarah Rymer(Rymon) - married 1671
                                   
3) John 1672 married Mary Wayt 1701
                                 
4) Silvester 1702 married Alethea Skinner 1729
                                 
5) John 1730 married Margaret Iles (1737-1799) in 1753

As you can see John was the elder brother of Thomas (1733) who married Susannah Powell.

After John and Margaret the line continues as follows:

6) Thomas Keen[e] (born 1754) married Elizabeth Jones on 17 Jan 1786 in Shrivenham, Berkshire.

7) Jane Keene (born 20 Jan 1808, chr 27 Mar 1808 Chiseldon).

Jane married George Richardson on 3 June 1834 at the parish church of St George Hanover Square, London. George was a coachman working for the Earl of Winchelsea who had a residence in that area of London.

George and Jane's son was James Keene Richardson. James was 2x great grandfather.

Matt

6
Gloucestershire / Re: Does anyone know where these places are?
« on: Sunday 29 April 18 20:30 BST (UK)  »
Hi Matt,
Yes my friend comes down from John, son of Thomas & Susannah Powell.  The marriage licence for Silvester & Sarah Rymer is in the vicar General Marriage Licences, he is about 20 yrs of age.  Sarah's burial in 1674 at Minety has her as "Sarah Rymon als Keene"

I have a subscription to Ancestry, and have seen the wills you mention, but I had not spotted that John had a sister Katherine, thank you!

In the Bishops Transcripts for Minety, there is an entry on page 4 - 1605 - Maria (Mary) daughter of John Keene - so they were hanging around Minety way back then!

Jane

Hi Jane

How does Thomas Keen (who married Susannah Powell) relate to John and Jane Keene?

Can you let me know your email and I can then send you a copy of the Keene tree I have so you can see everyone on it.

I haven't come across that burial of Sarah, and I hadn't looked at Rymon as a name yet. I haven't found a christening for her under Rymer (or Ryner) so perhaps Rymon might reveal something.

Matt


7
Kent / Re: Servants named in a Will
« on: Saturday 28 April 18 23:34 BST (UK)  »
Who are the servants Matt?

Hi

I don't think they are named but when I get a moment later in the week I will double check and see if there are any names.

Matt

8
Gloucestershire / Re: Does anyone know where these places are?
« on: Saturday 28 April 18 23:32 BST (UK)  »
My friend is descended from Thomas Keen & Susannah Powell -  I easily got back to Silvester & Sarah Rymer, just wanting to put "flesh on the bones" with documents like wills.

I was going to check something with you - at The National Archives in London, there are 3 disputes in 1652 & 1663 which name Silvester & Thomas of Minety.  Silvester's wife is named as Elizabeth in the 1663 case.  The 1652 case relates to lands in Kingham, Oxfordshire, (which is quite a way from Minety).  Would I be right in thinking this is a different Silvester to the one that married Sarah Rymer?  their marriage licence has him as born about 1651.  Could this be the father of John who died in 1670?

Hi

I don't have a record of this marriage in my notes although I have found a marriage of Thomas Keene and Susannah Powell in Ogbourne St Andrew in 1769. Let me know if that's the right one. If it is, can you let me know the line from John and Jane Keene down to Thomas so I can see how your friend and I are related.

Thanks
Matt

9
Gloucestershire / Re: Does anyone know where these places are?
« on: Saturday 28 April 18 23:29 BST (UK)  »
Hi Matt
I have just started researching the Keen family for a friend - I have tried to find the wills of both John 1670 & Jane 1685 on ancestry, but they are not showing up in the PCC wills - are they in a different category?
Many thanks
Jane

Hi Jane

I've got copies of both the Will of John Keene and Jane Keene if you want copies.

In his Will, John Keene mentions the following people:

"my son Barnard"
"Mary his daughter" - ie daughter of Barnard
"my daughter Dorothy"
"her children George Barnard and Mary" - ie children of Mary
"my daughter Elizabeth"
"my two sons John and Silvester"
"my daughters Joane and Jane"
"my brother Thomas"
"my sister Katherine"
"Jane my wife and Thomas my son"

The Will was dated 23 June 1670 [the three and twentieth day of June] and Jane and Thomas were made joint executors.

Barnard died in 1690 and left a Will (dated 7 Jauary 1689) in which he made his brother, Thomas Keene, one of the Overseers. The Will was proved on 7 May 1690.


Jane Keene left her Will in 1685 (dated 29 October - "the nine and twenteth day of October")

Her Will is a bit shorter but does mention the following people

"my son John Keene"
"my daughter Dorothy Hiscox" [Hiscock] [see note below]
"my daughter Elizabeth Tellen" [Elizabeth married Henry Telling on 29 June 1671 in Minety]
"my daughter Joane Norton"
"my daughter Jane Keen"
"my son Barnard Keene"
"Thomas Parker" - he is mentioned in relation to a debt

Jane makes her daughter Jane her sole executrix of her Will. One of the witnesses is Barnard Keene, who I think was her son.

Dorothy Keene married George Hiscock in - he died in 1697 and left a Will. The witnesses to his Will were Henry Tellin [Dorothy's sister in law] and John Keene [Dorothy's brother]. Henry Telling was also one of the appraisers of George's inventory.

Dorothy Hiscock (nee Keene) died 19 years later in 1716. She also left a Will dated 21 February 1714. She makes her four sons "George Hisocke, Barnard Hiscocke, John Hiscocke and Joseph Hiscocke" joint executors of her Will [Barnard may have been named after her brother Barnard Keene, and John may have been named after her brother or father]. She also makes her brother in law Henry Telling, Overseer of her Will. The Will is quite long, but thankfully very clearly written. One of the witnesses is - Elizabeth Tellin, obviously Dorothy's sister Elizabeth who was married to Henry Tellin. Her Inventory was taken by the same Henry Telling and Christopher Norton [Dorothy's brother in law]

Let me know if you want copies of these if you want to read them in full.

More info to the follow tomorrow once I've gone through my notes.

Matt



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