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Messages - BushInn1746

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1
Quote
7 January 1837
Rosamund COOK hath resided in Morpeth for 15 days last past, Spinster, aged 21 years and Thomas ABBOTT of the Parish of Loders, Dorsetshire, Bachelor, aged 21 years hath prayed for a Licence.

His Master's Certificate of Service dated 21 May 1867 & issued at Guernsey says he was born Loders in 1807 and that he had been 41 years in the British Merchant Service.  Another, dated 27 Dec 1850 and also issued in Guernsey gives his full DoB as 4 Jun 1807 and 26 years in the service.

Thank you Jomot

Working backward on the Abbotts, from Thomas SELIFANT and Alice SELIFANT [nee Alice ABBOTT] in 1911, gives, so far:-

John ABBOTT and Sarah WARD married 13 August 1826 / 4 September 1826 Allington / Bridport.

My jottings:-

1911 Census
Thomas SELIFANT, Head, Marr, 32 (born abt 1879), Postman, Shoe & Boot Repairer, born Ashwater, Devonshire.
Alice SELIFANT [nee ABBOTT], Wife, Marr, 27 (born about 1884), Birthplace Lyme Regis, Dorset [Registration Dist. Axminster].


1891 Census - Lyme. Axminster Reg'n District
William ABBOTT, 39 (born abt 1852), Mason, Born Dorset.
Lydia ABBOTT, Wife, 37 (born abt 1854), Born Dorset. [nee Lydia Gale]
Laura ABBOTT, 13 (born abt 1878), Born Dorset.
Walter ABBOTT, 11 (born abt 1880) Born Dorset.
Annie ABBOTT, 9, Born Dorset.
Alice ABBOTT, 7 (born abt 1884), Born Lyme, Dorset.
William R. ABBOTT, 3, Born Dorset.
Harry G. ABBOTT, 0, Born Dorset. [Harry Gale Abbott born 1890]


1881 Census - Lyme Regis, Dorset. Axminster Reg'n District
William ABBOTT, Head, Marr, 28 (born abt 1853), Mason, Birthplace Bridport, Dorset.
Lydia ABBOTT, Wife, Marr, 26, Born Netherbury, Dorset.
Laura ABBOTT, Daughter, 3, Born Lyme Regis, Dorset.
Walter ABBOTT, Son, 1, Born Lyme Regis, Dorset.


1861 Census - Allington. Reg'n District Bridport
James ABBOTT, Head, Marr, 30 (born abt 1831), Born Allington, Dorset.
Jane ABBOTT, Wife, Marr, 30 (born abt 1831), Born Allington, Dorset. NEE PAYNE.
William ABBOTT, Son, Un, 9 (born abt 1852), Born Allington, Dorset.
Ellen ABBOTT, Dau, Un, 7 (born abt 1853), Born Allington, Dorset.
Susan ABBOTT, Dau, Un, 4 (born abt 1857), Born Allington, Dorset.
George ABBOTT, Son, Un, 2 (born abt 1859).


James ABBOTT & Jane PAYNE married District of Bridport, 1851


James ABBOTT Bapt 6th July 1831 Allington, Dorset, parents John ABBOTT & Sarah.


1841 Census - Allington
John ABBOTT, 36-40, Born Dorset.
Sarah ABBOTT, 32-36, Born Dorset.
Willm ABBOTT, 14, Born Dorset.
George ABBOTT, 12, Born Dorset.
James ABBOTT, 10, Born Dorset.
John ABBOTT, 7, Born Dorset.
Joseph ABBOTT, 5, Born Dorset.
Benjamin ABBOTT, 3, Born Dorset. [Born in the Reg'n District of Bridport, Mar Qtr 1838 Mother WARD.]
Ann ABBOTT, 1, Born Dorset.


1. Can't see any ancestral link from Thomas Selifant & Alice Abbott 1907 marriage (known by my Grandparents) yet, back to Thomas ABBOTT of Loders, Dorsetshire, who married Rosamund COOK (Morpeth, Northumberland) in January 1837 ?


2. My Great Grandmother's side was Samuel Abbott, County Court Bailiff who married Charlotte Foulds, 1882, District of Kettering, but can't see any link there either to those ABBOTTS in Dorset?

Mark

2

It would be interesting if we could find the children of William Cook and Elizabeth Hood, and where they ended up. Children - Eleanor, Rosamund, William and Elizabeth.

Thanks to the other thread someone started I feel fairly sure Eleanor married as Ellen Cook in London to a George William Bentley. Her two sons were both given the middle name Hood and her daughter was a Elizabeth Rose Bentley who went on to marry a William Cotter, who ran his own business as a Flour Carman.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=163102.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=106949.msg6431373#msg6431373


From my jotted notes (not detailed) Rosamund married Thomas Abbott of Loders, Dorsetshire & ended up in Guernsey.  Thomas was a master mariner & Rosamund became a Boarding House Keeper.

Hello Jomot, Claire and All

7 January 1837
Rosamund COOK hath resided in Morpeth for 15 days last past, Spinster, aged 21 years and Thomas ABBOTT of the Parish of Loders, Dorsetshire, Bachelor, aged 21 years hath prayed for a Licence.

Interesting that Loders is near Bridport.

My late Grandparents were acquainted with Thomas Selifant and Alice ABBOTT who married in the District of Beauminster in 1907. Some of them were Baptists and my Grandfather was a Baptist. Beauminster Registration District included Bridport & Powerstock, which I recognise as being close to Loders.

I wonder if Alice ABBOTT who married in 1907 was related to Thomas ABBOTT of Loders, who married Rosamund COOK?

Mark

3
Dumfriesshire / Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« on: Monday 13 August 18 11:26 BST (UK)  »
Hi Maggie

Probably to rule out.

You also mentioned a Goldie and a Smith.

According to a Thames Police Court case Thomas Goldie, who had a Brother called John Smith (who also used a Johnson alias). Offence occurred at Shadwell, references to the shore, coal ships, barge and vessels there.

Reported in the Morning Advertiser 30 July 1840 (long column), sentenced to Hard Labour.

Mark

Hello Maggie

I am wondering if:-
John Henry Goldie was using John Smith (Court says he was the Brother of Thomas Goldie) and
Thomas Joseph Goldie had dropped his middle name, when caught by the Thames Police.

By 1840 they would be young men and I doubt their parents would be mentioned.

It appears they may have been in trouble at Woolwich reach with others previously, but let off and Goldie was known by Marston, a River Constable.

A Sarah Ann Goldie married a John Smith, at St Dunstan Stepney, London, 19 November 1826.
(Sarah Ann Goldie a Widow according to what you found)

 -----------

If the Parents Marriage (John Goldie & Sarah Ann Peart) was by Licence, then the Marriage Bond and Marriage Intention / Allegation are not online, the Archives which hold the Diocesan Record Archives, will hopefully be able to supply scans of them?

ADDED: but according to your Australian Marriage Certificate, it was John Goldie & Sarah Ann Peart marriage, which is of interest.

Mark

4
Yorkshire (West Riding) / Re: Non Conformist Baptism
« on: Monday 13 August 18 00:15 BST (UK)  »
Hello Jan

1846
WHEREAS a Petition of Jarvis Jagger, of Clayton Heights, near Bradford, in the county of York, Stuff Manufacturer, an insolvent debtor, having been filed in the Leeds District Court of Bankruptcy, and the interim order for protection from process having been given to the said Jarvis Jagger ...

Leeds Intelligencer, 17th April 1852
On Tuesday last, a game was played on Wibsey Slack, between Jarvis Jagger, of Bradford, and Isaac Drake, of Queen's Head, for 2 aside. The former was the victor by nearly 30 Scores.


Numerous Jagger of Clayton Heights in newspapers.


ADDED: According to letters of John Taylor the Old Dolphin Wesleyan Chapel was there in 1806.
In his letters John comments on the increasing competition for congregation, given the opening of the Ambler Thorn Kilhamite (Methodist New Connexion) Chapel and the Old Dolphin Wesleyan Chapel in 1806.


Clayton
https://e-voice.org.uk/claytonhistorygroup/then-and-now-margaret-dalgety/
Mr. & Mrs. Hirst were the main contributors to the building of the Old Dolphin Wesleyan Chapel at Clayton Heights, and there is also in Clayton Parish Church a stained glass window dedicated to their memory.


https://e-voice.org.uk/claytonhistorygroup/historical-dates/
1828 (August) Clayton Baptist's recognised as a separate church by Queenshead Baptist's.
1830 First Baptist Chapel built. Opened 22nd October. George Andrews pastor.
1834 (3rd October) Wesleyan Chapel, Clayton Lane, opened.



5
Snippet #23:

...and allso whereas I willid to my sonne Thomas after he comyth to the age of xxj yeres my

manours landis and ten(emen)tis in Creke and Cleycotton Immediatly after the dethe of

Elizabeth Counteis of Oxforde yf Anne Graye late [y? = the?] wife ^t of my brother John [Gray?] and now wife^ to sir Richarde Clement be

then lyvynge sholde be unto unto my said sonne Thomas duringe his lyf of the said Anne Graye

as by my said will afore made playnly apperithe whiche legacyes made unto my

said iij sonnes and every of them concerning the said manours landis and ten(emen)tis I revoke

and adnull by this my present will and for Recompense wherof I will that my said...



Cley Coton, Northamptonshire.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol4/pp595-610
28. Tho. marquis of Dorset. Grant, in fee, of the park called Beamount Lease, alias Beamount Wood, Leic., adjoining the King's park of Leicestre Fryth, and of Barden park, Leic.; in exchange for the Marquis's manor of Cley-Coton, Northt. Del. Westm., 28 May 17 Hen. VIII.S.B.


I am interested in any references to Edward Wootton and Charles Brandon Duke of Suffolk (Brother-in-Law of Henry VIII), as I am a bit of a collector of photocopy prints and images of documents relating to the Manor of Stockingford, alias Stokyngforth and Stoccingford & others), mine are photocopy prints of those in the Aston Charters (now in the British Library Dept of MSS).

The Manors of Stockingford were at the place called Galley Common, where finds date back 2,000 years. A Map of the Plot of Galley Common was drawn in 1590 for an Exchequer Case held in the time of Elizabeth I. The documents say the map was based on a description in an ancient Deed of Hughe Lylborne. Hugh Lilleburn registered / held property at Stockingford in 1280.

Stockingford from John Nichols, The History and Antiquities of the County of Leicester
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=752119.msg6005900#msg6005900


Monument to Henry Grey Duke of Suffolk Lord of the Manor of Astley, where a Hollow Oak once stood
https://www.ourwarwickshire.org.uk/content/catalogue_her/duke-of-suffolks-monument-astley


Enerdale mentioned earlier is Ennerdale, Cumbria. River Ehen. Apparently forfeited by Henry Duke of Suffolk, Father of Lady Jane Grey.

Mark

6
Dumfriesshire / Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« on: Sunday 12 August 18 13:09 BST (UK)  »
Another thing to my reply immediately above ...

Was their 1819 Marriage by Licence or Banns (sometimes "Lic" / "by Licence" is on the Marriage entry)?

If so, only few Licences survive.

Application for a Marriage Licence - Bond and Allegation
However to get a Licence, there should be a 'Marriage Bond' and a 'Marriage Intention' also called a 'Marriage Allegation'. It is worth seeing these, to see who the Bondsman offering the 200 Bond was (on the Marriage Bond) and also if there might be any additional information recorded, often not much, but they must be seen, if Marriage was by "Lic" / "by Licence".

Sometimes, a separate Banns Register entry also survives, to the Church Marriage Register entry. I have both entries for an ancestor of mine (Mother's side of the family) around this early 19th Century period.

Mark

7
Dumfriesshire / Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« on: Sunday 12 August 18 06:48 BST (UK)  »
Hi Maggie

In March 1840 there was a James Goldie, Esq., Chairman of the Commercial Gas-Light and Coke Company, Tower Hamlets.

Their Works were at Stepney and almost near completion in March 1840.


If you do a Newspaper search with "Goldie" and look in the Morning Advertiser, 1st October 1840, you will find an article titled "Commercial Gas Company" of their company celebration, mentioning Goldie the Chairman and how he was unable to attend due to ill health.


The Company records of the Commercial Gas Company 1838 to 1948 appear to have been saved and occupy 28.5 linear metres of shelving at the London Metropolitan Archives (LMA) Ref GB 0074 B/NTG-11.
https://aim25.com/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=14568&inst_id=118&nv1=search&nv2=


The Company name is also bringing up the records of the London Gas Museum LMA 4223 which seems to be coming up with LMA references now.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/61b81fa5-23b3-4d8b-b9fb-f73a61a0bbb2


London Metropolitan Archives
The LMA catalogue (covering Middlesex) is another Archives Catalogue, you may wish to try a 'Goldie' search in, too.


Maritime Museum Archives - Greenwwich
But don't forget to enquire about the Muster Rolls, especially at Greenwich Maritime Museum Archives, if your man was a Seaman.


88 Whitechapel High Street
Interesting the Gas Company on Google also brings up this address.
https://surveyoflondon.org/map/feature/320/detail/
Which mentions James Goldie, Distiller (1838), reference cited refers to the Land Tax returns (originals LMA).

Also mentioned, was James Goldie a Scottish Distiller who had built a Distillery adjoining to the rear in George Yard (Gunthorpe Street).


You could try a Goldie and variations of spelling here
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/advanced-search
A lot of regional archives have their some of their archives listings (but not all) on The National Archives search.

Scotland and Wales, each have their national Archives, as well as Regional and County Archives.


Regards Mark

8
Dumfriesshire / Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« on: Saturday 11 August 18 10:59 BST (UK)  »
Hi Maggie

Probably to rule out.

You also mentioned a Goldie and a Smith.

According to a Thames Police Court case Thomas Goldie, who had a Brother called John Smith (who also used a Johnson alias). Offence occurred at Shadwell, references to the shore, coal ships, barge and vessels there.

Reported in the Morning Advertiser 30 July 1840 (long column), sentenced to Hard Labour.

Mark

9
Dumfriesshire / Re: John Goldie b 1797 Tynron
« on: Saturday 11 August 18 08:57 BST (UK)  »
G'day Mark,

thank you for your suggestions on methodology. I believe I have been quite thorough in eliminating the possible John Goldies who were living in Shadwell when his sons were baptized in 1824. I have son Thomas's marriage certificate stating who his parents were when he married in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia in 1854, so I know they were John Goldie (a seaman) and Sarah Ann Peart. Thomas had joined the merchant navy in 1838 in London when he was 16 years old and neither he, his brother or parents can be found in the 1840 or later censuses in the UK.

I have a marriage record of John Goldie of the Parish of St Dunstan, Stepney and Sarah Ann Peart of the Parish of Shadwell, marrying in 1819 in Tower Hamlets. Witnesses Sarah Peart (Sarah Ann's mother maybe?) and Mary Ann Nicholls. I did find a marriage of a Sarah Ann Goldie - widow, to John Smith (great!!) in St Dunstan, Stepney in 1826 and thought this might be Thomas's mother remarrying after John had died between 1824 and 1826, but as you can appreciate, looking for a John Smith in the census has been overwhelming and I have not found them living in Shadwell in 1840.


Hi Maggie

If John Goldie was a Seaman, he should hopefully appear in the Muster Rolls if they have survived and I posted a couple of links previously, including the Maritime Museum Archives at Greenwich. Greenwich was near to Shadwell.

Circa 1800 Muster Rolls (by Vessel/Ship name) should record Names, approximate Ages, Birthplaces & Abodes, of the Master, Mate and Crew, but sometimes not all the information was repeated in some Muster Rolls, so you may need to go forward or back in the Muster Rolls, to find a full entry.

 ----------

There was also a Company called John Goldie, with Sailings from Liverpool to London, in Gore's Liverpool General Advertiser 28 September 1826. Interesting that the Master looks to be Jno Jackson, but very very easy to find coincidences. Address John Goldie, 32 North Side, Old Dock, Liverpool.


Also a James Goldie, Commander of the "Traveller", P. Ritchie, Queen Street, in the Aberdeen Journal, 16 February 1820.


I see the surname Peart coming up (as a Master), in sailings.


Shadwell (West / WSW of Stepney).

Mark

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