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Messages - BushInn1746

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1
The Common Room / Re: Delay between death and will
« on: Friday 18 January 19 21:45 GMT (UK)  »
Quote
When we made our wills,the solicitor advised us against naming a particular person as an executor in case they died before us. We we told to name the solicitors or one of their partners then there would be no delay in carrying our our wishes( unless the company went broke of course  ;D)

Of course they'd give you that advice, they will charge to execute the will, so unless you have an extremely complicated will, or businesses involved it's quite easy for most ordinary people to do the job.  My husband and I named 2 of our children as executors.

Yes, if naming Solicitors as Executors, the Solicitors Bill will be charged and deducted from the Estate value.

If the Executor dies, the Testator appoints a replacement (for England see link).

Executors need to be persons who are organised, will keep the records (of Money collected in and Bills paid out) filed; you know the Executors well, you can trust and who have confirmed to you as Testator, will actually deal with the Will. Basically an Executor is settling up all the deceased finances and assets in accord with the Will and relevant Law.

There was a complaint on UK Television, where a Will writing company (who kept the Wills) went Bankrupt and when the Wills were applied for, the Offices were empty and the Wills were lost. So consider the security of the Will too.

UK - a few general links
https://www.gov.uk/make-will/updating-your-will

https://www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance/if-the-person-didnt-leave-a-will

Who Inherits, when no Will - UK
https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will


Mark

2
The Common Room / Re: Delay between death and will
« on: Friday 18 January 19 11:29 GMT (UK)  »
Hello Rootschatters,
I am after some thoughts and ideas rather than actual research help.
What possible reasons could there be for a delay of roughly 10 years before a will was proved?
I have an ancestor whose will was proved in 1807, cannot find a burial, but his wife is described as a widow from 1798 in land tax records.  He was last sighted in 1795, with no intervening years.
A possible burial place in London doesn't have extant parish records for the time and he is not buried in the town of the land tax records.
But I am mainly perplexed on the delay. The only possible thing that I can see is there were no witnesses to the will, which had been written back in 1771. The wife was the sole beneficiary and executor. Two witnesses came forward in 1807 to verify it was my ancestors signature.
Any contributions welcome.

I have found Administrations and Wills delayed by many years.

Also found Second Grants for Probate for the same deceased person, where the Will was not fully settled on the first Grant of Probate. The Will said that our village Public House was to be sold when John Archer died and divided up between his Daughters. However, when John Archer died in 1812 his Widow Mrs Mary Archer continued to run the Holly Bush, Stockingford as Licensee and rename it The Plough. Around the time of The Plough Stockingford being advertised For Sale in 1821 (purchased by Stephen Arthrell), there was a "Second Grant" on John Archer's 1812 Will.

An old Admin or Will might not always be dealt with at the time; beneficiaries are minors (look for Trusts or Trustees names); possibly a family member still lived in the property; the person who should of dealt with the Will / Admin previously has now died; or some other reason, could cause the Admin/Will Probate application to be delayed.

A Will or a Trust in a Will may allow a business or a household (domestic) situation to continue as usual after a death. Also a Bankruptcy of a possible beneficiary, or their Assignment where a person might Assign property or a business for the Benefit of his / her Creditors (people owed money by the Beneficiary) might trigger the Will to be dealt with.

Perhaps the Will was found later when clearing a house or at the Solicitors.

In relation to a few Wills, there may be cases in the Court of Chancery to alter the terms of a Will or Trusts etc.

Missing Local Burials
There might be no local Parish Church burial, but if they had money the body could be transported elsewhere for burial, buried in a Private or Nonconformist Cemetery.

Some Quakers (and others) who owned their own property with garden or land could be buried at their own property, or another property they owned.

Land Tax
Our local Pub was subject to Tithe, also a Quit Rent to the Lord of the Manor (who had sold the Pub).

The Owner / Occupier might not always appear in surviving Land Tax records, because not every property was subject to Land Tax in England and some had paid the fee to Queen Anne's Bounty Office to redeem the property and be exonerated from Land Tax (See Redemption of / Redeemed Land Tax).

So if there are several of the same name in the locality, have you found your actual relative in the Land Tax, or someone else?

It depends on the detail in the Land Tax as to whether you can identify specific properties, some Land Tax Surveys were conducted more or less in Street order, then suddenly change to Alphabetical order by Proprietor or Occupier.

Mark

3
The Common Room / Re: Why would someone lie on a marriage certificate?
« on: Tuesday 15 January 19 16:09 GMT (UK)  »
There must be a Legal mechanism in place, when the location of one or even both parents is unknown.


My Sister married about 1980 and she required my Father's Consent because she was still 17.

Still applies today -  consent is required under 18.

But if she had lied and claimed to be 19, that wouldn't automatically make the marriage invalid.

For an answer regarding the question, you would have to refer to the various UK Marriage Acts.

 ----------

For us as Family Historians the information given on a Marriage Certificate ought to be correct, especially on the Certificate/s where the Marriage Parties are actually signing.

4
The Common Room / Re: Why would someone lie on a marriage certificate?
« on: Tuesday 15 January 19 14:23 GMT (UK)  »
My Sister married about 1980 and she required my Father's Consent because she was still 17.

I seem to recall the age then was 18 and if she waited a year, she would no longer require my Dad's Consent to Marry.

Mark

5
The Common Room / Re: Why would someone lie on a marriage certificate?
« on: Tuesday 15 January 19 13:48 GMT (UK)  »

The law has changed over time, but today, a person lying on a marriage notice, banns or marriage register may commit an offence of perjury (S3.1 Perjury Act 1911), but that does not automatically invalidate the marriage (unless the lie was to hide that the person was already married, the person was actually under 16, or too closely related to their spouse).

In cases of parental consent, it would also depend on whether such consent had been actively refused or just never asked for ......but someone would have to actively seek to have the marriage declared invalid/void.

Hello

Thank you.

I made a comment not to criticise anyone. Information given on a signed Marriage Certificate and Declaration should be correct.

Your reply still suggests the seriousness of the matter.

 ----------

A more detailed examination of the Marriage Acts is required regarding validity.

 ---------

https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/relationships/overview/lawofmarriage-/

Parental consent

No marriage of a person under the age of 21 was valid without the consent of parents or guardians. Clergymen who disobeyed the law were liable for 14 years transportation.

Although Jews and Quakers were exempted from the 1753 Act, it required religious non-conformists and Catholics to be married in Anglican churches.


 ----------

It appears the question of validity was originally a historic one, but would require an examination of the various UK Marriage Acts (if Marrying in the UK) to confirm if that part of the Act applied/still applies?

Mark

6
The Common Room / Re: Why would someone lie on a marriage certificate?
« on: Tuesday 15 January 19 11:25 GMT (UK)  »
Quote
Could it be then that he did not have his parents' permission, but she did?

Over 40 years ago I lied on my marriage certificate. I couldn't find my father for his consent, and I was under 21 (so need parental permission to marry) so I said he was dead - no doubt to the confusion of future genealogists! So you can't take even relatively modern BMD certificates as being gospel truth!

Hi

If anyone else is reading the above.

Don't do this!

Where permission of a living parent is required, it seems that permission is required for the Marriage to be Lawfully valid (UK).

There must be a Legal mechanism in place, when the location of one or even both parents is unknown.

I'm wondering if it could lead to problems regarding inheritance etc., from that date and into the future.

Not to mention dishonesty claiming someone is dead, when they are alive to gain something or gain an advantage might be considered as Fraud.

Mark

7
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Log of H.M.S. Blonde transcription please
« on: Thursday 10 January 19 00:22 GMT (UK)  »
It could be “sick” 21 of the 149 men are noted as sick in the next day’s entries when the rest of them were brought on board,

Yes, as I thought - sick

with the sick, & sundry effects of the ship's Co. [Company] (crew).
Emp'd unloading & dispatching the boats
(o added to make unloading)
(Emp'd / employed)

Mark

8
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Log of H.M.S. Blonde transcription please
« on: Thursday 10 January 19 00:00 GMT (UK)  »
with the sick[?], & sundry effects of the Ships Co

letter 'a' elsewhere is always a closed letter and a definite a,
I don't see ... sails

Emp'd (Employed) ...

Mark


9
World War Two / Re: WW2 National Fire Service records, where?
« on: Wednesday 09 January 19 19:24 GMT (UK)  »
Hello

If you have tried the County Fire Service / Fire Brigade HQ.

Some stations also hung on to their records and there was not always systematic record keeping.

When Coastguard, Observer Corps, Posts / Fire Stations closed, Officers interested in those activities took some home, which in effect saved them, but in private hands. Some of these have found their way into archives, but got split up from any main collections (that were saved).

Try County and City Archives. Check if advance permission is required to see records.

Named people also appear in Fire Brigade day to day records, during WW 2.

For Wartime incidents (which may name Officers involved) see Occurrence Books or Fire Committee; War Committee; Emergency Planning and ARP Committee records, Unexploded bombs, Log Books etc.

Example of Personnel Record Cards released by Bedfordshire in 1995 to the Bedfordshire County Archives, back to 1941.

Fire Service Personnel
Record Cards (Bedfordshire - part?)
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/88211ef7-17ba-4718-9dbe-11ab2fb99a74
(Held Bedfordshire Archives)

"National Fire" search 1941 to 1945
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/4?_ep=National%20Fire&_dss=range&_sd=1941&_ed=1945&_ro=any&_hb=tna&_st=adv


Try the relevant County Archives / City Archives etc

Mark

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