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Messages - BushInn1746

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1
Hello

Awaiting the 1816 Will bundle of Wm Batman of Selby, because George Hood was later one of the occupants of the premises owned by the Exors of Batman and there was a later Hood of Selby link to Bateman (via Wilkinson).

In 1839 George Hood with others were linked to the premises owned by Batman's Exors.

By 1840 Richard Precious now owned the premises (previously Batman's Exors) with Geo Hood and others still occupying.

Interesting that a Robert Precious married Hannah Newby 1825, Daughter of Hannah Newby (nee Chester) of Carlton, Snaith and Kellington and Mother of Chester Newby (George Hood's Marriage Bondsman).

Going back to the Batman surname, it appears at Eastrington - Mary BATMAN marrying Thomas SWAN in 1772. John BATMAN was a witness.

Then on the next Eastrington page (same opening) John Batman witnesses a John ANELAY, marriage in 1773. The Howdenshire History website suggests the early members of the Eastrington Ainley Family came from the Snaith area and mentions the 1773 Marriage.
http://www.howdenshirehistory.co.uk/eastrington/ainley-family-history.html

Interesting, because in 1802 a George Newby, Wheelwright, married Elizabeth Swan, Spinster both of Baln, Parish of Snaith and William HOOD and David SWANN were witnesses.

At Selby in 1811 Robert CHESTER, Sailor, married Jane BATEMAN, witnesses Thos AINLAY and John Jackinson.

There just seems to be a load of surname links with all this above lot!

 ----------

Then I find on the Borthwick catalogue for Yarburgh of Heslington ...

Agreement of Sarah and David SWANN, farmers, OF BALNE, with George John Yarburgh, to rent lands in Balne on annual basis, at £137 per annum

Wm Hood of Heslington is also linked to the Yarburgh of Heslington, due to Wm Hood holding some of Yarburgh lands.
 *** Added: Elizabeth Hood 1717 seems to be listed under a Marriage Settlement list by Hull History Centre [Financial Settlement prior to an intended Marriage, usually to cover her settlement should her Husband die first] in the Greame papers, apparently linked with Yarburgh.

Yarburgh of Heslington also holds lands in various parts of the Parish of Snaith and just discovered Yarburgh of Snaith Hall and G. Cooke Yarburgh mentioned in 1826.

Therefore, I've ordered the full Will Bundle of William Hood of Heslington (rather than just my 1807 Inland Revenue Abstract Copy).

 -----------

Clary WALKER first married Jonathan Ranby of Pollington and as Widow she married James Hood, Schoolmaster in 1762 at Snaith. Buried Snaith in 1794 as Clarissa Hood.

And who were witnesses in 1762 Samuel ANLEY (variations of that surname also cropping up often) and the other witness was Samuel Huscroft.

 ----------

Previously, traced back the ancestry of the Bell Hotel, Humberstone Gate, Leicester, proprietor's Wife, (where my 2 x Gt Grandmother was a Domestic in 1871, shortly before her Marriage) and the Proprietor's Wife descends from Robinson of Carlton, Snaith. In the same line, there was a Hannah Cooke and Wm Storr witnesses at the 1821 Snaith Wedding of John Robinson and Ann Eddell.

Fotunately, there is an 1839 Will for this John Robinson of Carlton, Widow Ann, the Hotel Wife's ancestor, so ordered that too.


Previously we discovered, in 1830 William Cockin of Snaith married Ann Robinson at Hatfield (William Cooke & John Hepworth were witnesses) and now wonder if they'll be related to this Robinson of Carlton line. Hopefully the Will might link a few, or perhaps the Leicester Hotel Proprietor's Wife was a relative of ours and how my 2 X Gt Grandparents met (the Proprietor's Wife and my 2 X Gt Grandfather both having links with Selby).

My Grandmother mentioned Snaith and Beverley, also Stephenson and Robinson.

So I still remain hopeful!

Mark

*** Elizabeth Hood of Sewerby 1717 was listed as a Will by the Hull History Centre, sorry. Not a Marriage Settlement.

Mark

2
The Common Room / Re: Two burials in one grave?
« on: Tuesday 21 May 19 17:56 BST (UK)  »
In many cemeteries, if the plot for the first burial wasn’t purchased, the same plot would be used for a future burial, often unrelated.

Yes, my Gt. Uncle (buried second, on top) shares a grave with a stranger.

My Gt Aunt was swayed by her Brother in grief, as it made the cost of the grave cheaper. However, my Gt Aunt who could have purchased a single grave for two in the Council Cemetery, deeply regretted the decision afterward, as she knew she couldn't be buried there. However, her ashes were let in the surface, as requested in her Will.

Unless, it is a Vault, or Family Grave, the Parish Church often buried the deceased with or just above the previous burial.


A couple of times I've found a burial I wasn't expecting, in a "Family grave" - one proved to be the child of young neighbours of the family, in another a relative of the later( keep up) husband of a second wife, who had been widowed ...oddly enough the original husband was parked elsewhere??
You never know, there may be a connection turns up in time....

Anything might turn up, in burial Records and on Memorials.

 ----------

Not everyone had a Headstone. Others have crumbled, been damaged and/or been removed.

Sometimes, the Headstone is left to the last family burial in the grave and the family alive then (if any), sometimes don't bother to purchase one, or cannot afford one.

 ----------

Traysha, have you checked to see whether they are distantly related?

Mark

3
Hello

All Marriages from 1837 within England and Wales, should be Registered with the Registration District Civil Registrar (under our Registrar General) and also listed on the General Register Office (G.R.O.) Index, separately under both the Marriage surnames.

Both the marriage parties should have the same (matching) District name, Volume and Page Number, in the G.R.O. Index.

The Index is usually enough (along with finding them in the Census and their child/childrens Birth Certificates) to give the information required to order a Copy Marriage Certificate from the General Register Office (G.R.O.) and these can be ordered on the internet from anywhere in the World I believe, to be sent as Pdfs (or by Post).

Here is an 1873 example sent from the District Registrar's Office covering Selby, Yorkshire, England, for a Wesleyan Methodist Marriage
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=756955.msg6287254#msg6287254
(Reply 695)

The Certified Marriage Copy held by the Registrar General (G.R.O.) might be an exact copy sent by the Minister, or hold the same duplicated information, including Witness names, (many of whom are related, or known to one or both of the family marrying).

If familiar with the local Registration process, sometimes we go direct to the District Registrar, but from elsewhere in the World, people seem to have obtained England and Wales Certified Copies from 1837 fairly easily by online ordering (once they have checked the Marriage image is not already online).

Search here (where you can also check the actual images of the GRO Index)
https://freebmd.org.uk

From 1837 (in England & Wales) a UK Government gov.uk website
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

Some Parish Church Wedding images are online, but if Nonconformist and not online, then it might be easier to find the Birth, Marriage and Death from 1837 in the Civil GRO Register Index, rather than look for individual Chapel Registers, because there were numerous Nonconformist Chapels all over our Country, in rural country Lanes, or villages, to large towns or cities (where there were often several or many Chapels in an area).

To give some idea 60,000 left one particular Nonconformist sect around the mid 19th Century and either went to break away sects, or to C of E, or other Nonconformist sects, or Quakers, or Jews, or even Catholic.

 ----------

Bear in mind if they Married in Scotland or the Isle of Man or outside of England and Wales, a researcher will have to consider a search of these other Registries too.

Once, a correct matching English & Wales Civil Marriage Certificate is obtained, this should also give the Chapel, Register Office, or place etc., where the Marriage took place.

 ----------

It is possible my ancestor might have become what is known as a 'Quaker Methodist' and possibly why the Quakers refused his Quaker Membership application in 1836. However, the Quakers buried him in 1845 as Not in Membership.

I have recently seen some information, indicating some would be at the Parish Church Sunday morning, then at their own Nonconformist Meeting in the afternoon. Some were even trying to draw Anglican / C of E attenders away to their own Nonconformist Meetings.

Mark

4
Hello

Awaiting the 1816 Will bundle of Wm Batman of Selby, because George Hood was later one of the occupants of the premises owned by the Exors of Batman and there was a later Hood of Selby link to Bateman (via Wilkinson).

In 1839 George Hood with others were linked to the premises owned by Batman's Exors.

By 1840 Richard Precious now owned the premises (previously Batman's Exors) with Geo Hood and others still occupying.

Interesting that a Robert Precious married Hannah Newby 1825, Daughter of Hannah Newby (nee Chester) of Carlton, Snaith and Kellington and Mother of Chester Newby (George Hood's Marriage Bondsman).

Going back to the Batman surname, it appears at Eastrington - Mary BATMAN marrying Thomas SWAN in 1772. John BATMAN was a witness.

Then on the next Eastrington page (same opening) John Batman witnesses a John ANELAY, marriage in 1773. The Howdenshire History website suggests the early members of the Eastrington Ainley Family came from the Snaith area and mentions the 1773 Marriage.
http://www.howdenshirehistory.co.uk/eastrington/ainley-family-history.html

Interesting, because in 1802 a George Newby, Wheelwright, married Elizabeth Swan, Spinster both of Baln, Parish of Snaith and William HOOD and David SWANN were witnesses.

At Selby in 1811 Robert CHESTER, Sailor, married Jane BATEMAN, witnesses Thos AINLAY and John Jackinson.

There just seems to be a load of surname links with all this above lot!

 ----------

Then I find on the Borthwick catalogue for Yarburgh of Heslington ...

Agreement of Sarah and David SWANN, farmers, OF BALNE, with George John Yarburgh, to rent lands in Balne on annual basis, at £137 per annum

Wm Hood of Heslington is also linked to the Yarburgh of Heslington, due to Wm Hood holding some of Yarburgh lands.
Added: Elizabeth Hood 1717 seems to be listed under a Marriage Settlement list by Hull History Centre [Financial Settlement prior to an intended Marriage, usually to cover her settlement should her Husband die first] in the Greame papers, apparently linked with Yarburgh.

Yarburgh of Heslington also holds lands in various parts of the Parish of Snaith and just discovered Yarburgh of Snaith Hall and G. Cooke Yarburgh mentioned in 1826.

Therefore, I've ordered the full Will Bundle of William Hood of Heslington (rather than just my 1807 Inland Revenue Abstract Copy).

 -----------

Clary WALKER first married Jonathan Ranby of Pollington and as Widow she married James Hood, Schoolmaster in 1762 at Snaith. Buried Snaith in 1794 as Clarissa Hood.

And who were witnesses in 1762 Samuel ANLEY (variations of that surname also cropping up often) and the other witness was Samuel Huscroft.

 ----------

Previously, traced back the ancestry of the Bell Hotel, Humberstone Gate, Leicester, proprietor's Wife, (where my 2 x Gt Grandmother was a Domestic in 1871, shortly before her Marriage) and the Proprietor's Wife descends from Robinson of Carlton, Snaith. In the same line, there was a Hannah Cooke and Wm Storr witnesses at the 1821 Snaith Wedding of John Robinson and Ann Eddell.

Fotunately, there is an 1839 Will for this John Robinson of Carlton, Widow Ann, the Hotel Wife's ancestor, so ordered that too.


Previously we discovered, in 1830 William Cockin of Snaith married Ann Robinson at Hatfield (William Cooke & John Hepworth were witnesses) and now wonder if they'll be related to this Robinson of Carlton line. Hopefully the Will might link a few, or perhaps the Leicester Hotel Proprietor's Wife was a relative of ours and how my 2 X Gt Grandparents met (the Proprietor's Wife and my 2 X Gt Grandfather both having links with Selby).

My Grandmother mentioned Snaith and Beverley, also Stephenson and Robinson.

So I still remain hopeful!

Mark

5
Hello Frank

I'm not a reader of German, or familiar with German Caligraphy.

However, the first character is repeated underneath 1. Klasse [1. Class]?

So that would make Kreuz, above.

Our War experts on the other Forum would probably make sense of it.

Mark

6
Hello

Glad to see you are still researching!

Second word on the top of the box looks to be possibly Strenz, a German surname?

I have seen dates written 24 over 5  16, meaning 24th May in the year 16, when the Century was not specified, in captured Military Archive documents.

The word before this numbering is Trier or possibly Frier when the picture is greatly reduced in size.

Trier is a German place name, does that make any sense?

If Germany is like our places and surnames, Trier a surname perhaps?

If I could read German I'd probably recognise the first part.

Mark

Added the date on the top is 17 May 16

7
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« on: Saturday 18 May 19 11:02 BST (UK)  »
Hello

Two Prerogative Court of Canterbury (PCC) Wills, for Leonard Fosbrooke of Shardlow

Will of Leonard Fosbrooke of Shardlow Hall , Derbyshire.
02 September 1830
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D270604

A very quick read of the first few pages only of the 1830, Fosbrooke mentions upon his death that they could sell one of his Estates (Shardlow named, with others) which might sell.

Estates were usually broken up into Lots and offered for Sale at Auctions (some advertised briefly in newspapers) and therefore not unusual for some Lots to remain unsold and still in the family ownership later.

A small snippet from the 1830 Will ...

And whereas by the Settlement made previous to my Marriage with my said dear wife Mary Elizabeth Fosbrooke a rent charge of five hundred pounds is secured to her my said wife in case she shall survive me and her assigns for life ...

So there was a Marriage Settlement once, before the 1830 Fosbrooke Will and their Marriage.

Also mentioned so far in the Will, Lands at Ravenstone and Snibston Leicestershire.

She was nee Mary Elizabeth Story and according to the Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal, her Father was the Rev. Philip Story of Lockington Hall.


You are probably already looking at the Records of the Fosbrooke family of Shardlow D 447 at Derbyshire R.O. (other related family items in other collections)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F16483
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/N13628693

 ----------

Will of Leonard Fosbrooke of Shardlow, Derbyshire
20 July 1763
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D487021

 ----------

These references in Burke's 19th Century books are useful for their family history and to find possible locations of other possible surviving document sources etc., should those at Derby R.O., be incomplete.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YdIKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA434&lpg=PA434&dq=Description:+Will+of+Leonard+Fosbrooke+of+Shardlow&source=bl&ots=qFyrj-9b1L&sig=ACfU3U1OWj0p2aIgfedmilGrNdVVXq0SkA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiYr5PTwqTiAhWDVBUIHenBBQ4Q6AEwCHoECAkQAQ

 ----------

General Comments

If there was a 'Tail' on an English Estate, where it passes to a Son and Heir or a Daughter Heiress, then there may be an Estate Act, or Estates Act, (with a family name in the Act title), to break the 'Tail'. Some are held locally or in the Parliamentary Archives.

Oh yes, it is very exciting stuff, for the enquiring mind wanting a challenge.

Knowing their Family History too is useful, because when these great and medium sized Landowners died or moved house some Manuscripts were sometimes taken by them or family to one of their other Estates / Seats, or Sold off as Manuscripts with their great Libraries, or left with their Solicitors, or even left with the new owner of their former Seat or House, who have kept items in their house or family and now deposited them in Record Offices or University Special Collections, where they subsequently lived or died.

Wills online are only a small part of the Wills actually held.

Regarding a Manor of interest to me, they conducted an Enquiry / Inquiry Post Mortem between 1606 to 1608 into her Lands and her Estate Lands are listed by Field name too, some of which can be found in earlier Courts Baron Surveys, Surveys and Rentals of the Estate in the Medieval period.

It is really an offence to destroy old House Deeds, which go back into the Manor period, as they will very likely be Manorial documents.


Hopefully the Manor and Estate documents will be more useful.

A local lady told me their Solicitor binned their 400 year old Map and documents in front of them, because the property was now Registered, now she only has 200 year old Deeds, which have no original Map, only a modern Plan in a Sales Brochure marking the land, when her family offered the site for sale.

UK Land Registry Office, current documents and Maps at First Registration held for my area are usually only 20th Century at best, despite the Lands being mentioned in the time of Henry II and a rich source of documents going back 600 years and more.

 ----------

Generally. A Homebuyer should always read these Registered Titles too (not just the online summary) as the Title ought to summarise Covenants and Responsibilities at first Registration and have a Plan too.

New or recent Housing Estates are hiding so much in these wordy Conveyance documents, especially future costs that people simply sign to be responsible to pay for without even reading it (e.g. including a share of the future cost of part of the new housing estate road which the council never adopted part of, shared street lighting, or another was maintenance and repairs of a massive retaining wall which also gave rights for the Council to seize the 'Freehold' property if they couldn't pay). Conveyances and Plans should be read and checked at your own pace, which can be fully enquired about or an opinion sought first, before proceeding.

Mark

8
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« on: Friday 17 May 19 22:15 BST (UK)  »

Also, wouldn't there have to be Council approval, which I have seen in other areas, or some other legal formalities? I do believe the house had a different name in the early 1800's, so any advice would be welcome!


Hello

Council Planning Departments usually had a Card Index by property address (ours did), listing any old Planning Application title/s, date/s and the respective Planning Reference Number/s, if any applications (before computerisation). Council Planning Departments should still have these Card Indexes and Planning Files, as there was a requirement mid 20th Century (before computerisation) to retain Planning records, in England.


Regarding Street naming and numbering two Acts are:-

Towns Improvement Clauses Act 1847
Sections 64 & 65.

The Public Health Act 1925
Sections 17, 18 and 19.


If a House is in a Conservation Area or formerly/currently a Listed Building, worth checking those Planning Applications too (if any were noted).

Mark

9
Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition / Re: Can't decipher the surname...
« on: Thursday 16 May 19 12:13 BST (UK)  »
Some possible sources for researching the family, which might mention their Property, Lands or Tenantry.

Sutton of Shardlow
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=Sutton%20of%20Shardlow&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv

Clifford of Shardlow (have links with the Sutton family)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=Clifford%20of%20Shardlow&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv

Estate Surveys and Rentals and some Accounts, mention Property and Tenantry, or Deeds when the Estate changes hands. Also Wills.

Sometimes when a wealthy Estate married another wealthy Estate, the couple would have a Marriage Settlement to establish property rights in the event of death etc., that kind of thing.

Some Record Offices may have uncatalogued items, but hopefully Handlists (a summary by Document title with a Catalogue ref only). Landed families often had property and lands in many counties.

It can be a lengthy business checking and not often fruitful, but when you find something linked, it is a real gem.

Mark

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