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Messages - Happy Flowergirl

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1
Buckinghamshire Lookup Requests / Re: Wing - ROW / ROWE parish records lookup please
« on: Wednesday 12 July 06 11:42 BST (UK)  »
Hi Susan,

That would be fantastic if you could help. I hope it is not too much trouble for you, although I fear that this Rowe family is too complicated a puzzle, as I have just received the marriage cert of Sophia Row, and it shows her fathers name as William Pratt....  So now we have yet more to confuse us, Sophia could have been baptised Sophia Pratt, although there is nothing in the IGI Wing baptisms for this name.

Now I know that this is definitely the right Sophia, because whilst Elizabeth is living with daughter Hannah Garner & family in the 1841 and 1851 censii, she is then living with Sophia Merridell and family in the 1861 census. (Sophia and Samuel are also living with the Garners in 1841.)

As my direct line through Samuel is clear, i.e. parents of Joseph and Elizabeth, I just need to find out who Joseph and Elizabeth were and when Elizabeth was born, and I had hoped that her daughters Hannah and Sophia might help me trace her, but they are just making the whole search even more complicated.

Thanks for all your help Susan
Kind regards
Marion

p.s. I have a suspicion that Joseph Row did not come from Wing as I can't find him there either (although the marriage record might state if he was of the parish or not, of course it doesn't mean he was born there, just living there.)

2
England / Re: Adoption in the early 1800's
« on: Tuesday 11 July 06 13:37 BST (UK)  »
Thank you Jorose for your help.
Back to the drawing board I suppose, finding these girl's baptisms is nigh on impossible when I don't know their original surnames!! oh well... lol
Thanks again
Marion

3
England / Adoption in the early 1800's
« on: Tuesday 11 July 06 11:41 BST (UK)  »
Hi everyone,

There are two daughters of my gt gt gt gt grandmother both born in Wing, Bucks, who I think were not born to my gt gt gt gt grandfather, but who do have his surname in the censii and on their marriage certs.

I am wondering if anyone could tell me if adoption was a normal practise back in the early 1800's and if there would be any documented reference to it in any records? If so where could I look to find them?
The adoptions probably happened in Wing, Bucks, sometime between 1820 and 1830 maybe?

Or is it possible that children would take on the surname of a step-father when the mother married without formal adoption?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts
Kind regards
Marion

4
Buckinghamshire / Adoption in the early 1800's
« on: Tuesday 11 July 06 11:39 BST (UK)  »
Hi everyone,

There are two daughters of my gt gt gt gt grandmother both born in Wing, Bucks, who I think were not born to my gt gt gt gt grandfather, but who do have his surname in the censii and on their marriage certs.

I am wondering if anyone could tell me if adoption was a normal practise back in the early 1800's and if there would be any documented reference to it in any records? If so where could I look to find them?
The adoptions probably happened in Wing, Bucks, sometime between 1820 and 1830 maybe?

Or is it possible that children would take on the surname of a step-father when the mother married without formal adoption?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts
Kind regards
Marion


5
Hi, I am wondering if anyone can help me with a really puzzling problem.

I have the following family
Joseph Rowe (Row) and Elizabeth (probably Bolton) and their children
Hannah Rowe (bc1819 in Wing, Bucks)
Sophia (or Sophey) Rowe (bc1826 in Wing, Bucks)
Samuel Rowe (bap 21/12/1828 in Battlesden, Beds)
Sarah Rowe(bap 25/07/1830 in Battlesden, Beds, d1832)

One of my queries is that IGI shows a marriage of Joseph Rowe to Elizabeth Bolton on 27/07/1828 in Wing, Bucks. This means that Elizabeth was pregnant with Samuel, (my gt gt gt grandad) when they got married.  Would someone be able to check the original entry to see if this is the case or if there are any fathers names please?

Both Hannah and Sophia (or Sophey) have the surname of Row (from the 1841 Battlesden census and the marriage cert of Hannah), but I am beginning to think that maybe Elizabeth was a widow when she married Joseph (or they were both widowed) and that Joseph adopted both Hannah and Sophia and they took his name. Hannah's marriage cert does state her father as Joseph Row though (she married William Garner). Still waiting for marriage cert of Sophia who married John Merridell (Merrydale).

I can find an IGI member submitted entry for the baptism of a Hannah ROWE bap 23/07/1820 in Wing, Bucks, parents as Elizabeth ROWE and William ELLIOT.
But there are also two member submitted entries in the IGI as follows
Hannah <Bolton> bap 21/11/1824 in Farhnam Royal, Bucks to Thomas Bolton and Elizabeth
Sophia <Bolton> bap 18/05/1828 in Farhnam Royal, Bucks to Thomas Bolton and Elizabeth
Now I dont know why the angle brackets are around the surname on these entires, could this be because they changed their surnames, but if these are my Hannah and Sophia why do all the censii show their place of birth as Wing, Bucks? I can't find any other baptisms for a Sophia around this time that would match any of the possible surnames she might have had. (I have found a marriage of a Thomas Bolton to Elizabeth Hall 24/04/1820 in Water Stratford, Bucks, but I really don't think that this is my Elizabeth as my Elizabeth was born in Wing).

Please could someone check the Wing or the Farnham Royal parish records to see what these entries say.

I suspect that there is a baptism for a Hannah in Wing in July 1820, but I wonder what her surname was then, I suppose it could be Rowe, Elliot or Bolton or even Hall.

Elizabeth herself is difficult to trace, not only because I can't tell what was her birth name, but also because she changes her age in all the censii. In the 1841 she is shown as 45 (1796), in 1851 as 61 (1790) and in the 1861 as 76 (1785), but at least in all instances she is shown as being born in Wing, Bucks.

Sorry if this post is a bit long, but I hope you can understand why I am confused, and perhaps someone might be able to help me verify some of the details for my family.

With kind regards
Marion

6
Hi Susan,

I'm not sure if I am looking at the right site? The Bucks FHS site doesnt have their databases online for you to search, but you can send off a cheque for them to do the searches for you. They say they have about a third of the parishes transcribed in the database, so actually I'm not so convinced that the county searches would be as thorough as I had first thought.

Is this the same website and database of which you are talking when you say the CRO? And if so, when they say that Ivinghoe 1901 St Mary the Virgin 1559 and Ivinghoe 1950 Wesleyan Chapel 1838 are transcribed are these likely to be complete for those church records? Your advice would be appreciated.

Cheers
Marion

7
Hi Susan,

Thanks so much for offering to do lookups at the archive centre for me.

Since your last message I had a look at the Bucks FH site, and had a look at their database search facility and it does look quite good. For just £2 you can get a county wide search for a surname over a hundred year period. That seems really extensive, and would produce a really thorough search too, especially when you can include name alternatives. I think I will do this for the Windmill baptisms. I will probably also up my spend by another pound or two and get the marriages and burials too!!! lol

As I am most likely to this this it is probably not going to be necessary for the lookups at the archive centre. If the systems there run in a similar way to the Bedfordshire archive (to which I have been) then one has to search each parish book separately, and if the people for whom we seek have moved parishes then it can be a difficult way of searching. Oh, I just realised, they probably have the database on the systems there... doh!!

Ok, if I order the database searches from the site, I will let you know, so that you can use your time at the archive centre for other things.

Thanks again for your help
Kind regards
Marion

8

Thank you Susan for your help and the info.

Interesting that the marriage of Mary Windmill (to William Bates) is witnessed by a William Windmill. Maybe this is her brother... I shall go hunt the IGI for who this William Windmill might be. Shame there is no father's name for Mary, but thank you for confirming the date for me.

The IGI only shows the two children to John and Ann Windmill but, as we know, the IGI is far from complete. Given how many children most people had back then it is likely that there were more than just two. Although it is possible that Ann died young and John re-married, so William could be her half brother. I will check again through the Ivinghoe IGI batch numbers for christenings and marriages to see just what they do have listed for William Windmill, and also for the Elizabeth Windmill who married Daniel Durrant (I am sure I have seen this name somewhere before....)

I wasn't aware that one could simply e-mail the Buckinghamshire CRO and they will give you information. I shall try giving that a go also, because I have another 4 family lines from Buckinghamshire that I am still stuck on. Do you know of a particualr e-mail address on which it is best to contact them?

Once again thank you for your help Susan, and I will carry on searching for the marriage of John and Ann, and perhaps a baptism for John.

Kind regards
Marion

9
Buckinghamshire Lookup Requests / Ivinghoe WINDMILL parish register lookup please
« on: Wednesday 05 July 06 02:39 BST (UK)  »
I have a John WIndmill who married Ann Unknown. Their children are Mary 26 June 1773  & Thomas 10Sept 1780. There is probably more but at this stage I cannot find them. They were both born in Ivinghoe Buckinghamshire. Thomas married Elizabeth Wright TAme of Potsgrove, where the next generations of my family come from.
Any help is appreciated

Lee

Hi,
I am new to this board and have just found this post. The John and Ann mentioned in the quote above, and their son Thomas (and his wife Elizabeth) are my direct ancestors too. I have been searching for information on John Windmill but to no avail. His son Thomas moved to Potsgrove, Bedfordshire where he married Elizabeth Wright Thame, as Lee has mentioned above. We have been able to trace many of the descendents of Thomas.

But it is his dad, John that is prooving elusive. I have had no luck with the ancestry message boards, as virtually no-one is looking for Windmills. Does anyone on here have access to Ivinghoe parish records, that we might be able to find a marriage for John to Ann? (btw the dates that Lee has given above for Thomas and Mary are the baptism dates not the birth dates). Or can anyone check the original entry for the baptisms of both Mary Windmill and Thomas Windmill, so that we might be able to verify the IGI info on their baptisms? Also I have found two possible marriages for a Mary Windmill in Ivinghoe, both to William Bates, one dated 12/1/1791 and the other dated  28/2/1791. Both entries are form submitted by a member of the LDS, so would anyone be able to check these and verify her father's name at least so we can see if there is a link.

I know that there are many Windmills to be found in and around Ivinghoe, and have even wondered if their name originates from the Pitstone windmill (which is right next to Ivinghoe), said to be the oldest post mill in the UK (dates from 1625 or earlier).

I look forward to hearing from anyone who can help.
Kind regards
Happy Flowergirl.

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