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Messages - simonwpb

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1
Lancashire Lookup Requests / Re: Rayner family in 1901
« on: Saturday 16 September 23 15:15 BST (UK)  »
Here are my notes from some years ago:

William was the oldest child of Thomas and Betsey Rayner. His parents baptized two Williams, one in 1857 and again in 1859. This may indicate that a first child died as an infant.

In 1871, William was already working as a tailor with his father at age 13 in their home in Great Budworth.

He married Eliza Ann Grant on 26th April 1880 at St. Mary’s church in Beswick, Lancashire, Prestwich district. Beswick being just north of Gorton on the east side of Manchester. (Historically Manchester was divided into 2 large registration districts, Chorlton and Prestwich hence the confusion now with the current area of Prestwich). The witnesses to the marriage were his wife’s sister and her husband who were also her neighbors. Eliza and her sister were from Staffordshire.

In 1881 William “Raynor” the tailor from Budworth is married to “Elisa” with his 2-week old daughter Amy. He gave his age as 27, while Eliza was 28. (Other records suggest he was only 23). They lived at #25 Lloyd Street, Warrington. Perhaps he wanted to appear older because Eliza was 6 years older than he was?

His son Bill’s birth certificate in 1884 shows his mother to be “Eliza Rayner formerly Grant.” Eliza died during child-birth in 1887, and Bill married Hannah Pass only a few months later. They were married at St Elphin church. With two young children to be cared for at home, it was not uncommon for a widower to marry again quickly. Hannah was a domestic servant who used to work in the household of a solicitor. It is possible that William met both his spouses while they were employed by his clients.

In the 1891 Census, William Rayner lived at 10 Catherine Street, Warrington with his 2nd wife wife Hannah, 3 children and his brother was also present that day.  Young seven year old Bill had an older sister called Amy. There was 7 years between the birth of Bill and his new-born half-brother Bertie in 1891.

William’s younger brother John Rayner was also a tailor who was living with his brother that year. Hannah was from Staffordshire, and many of their neighbors on Catherine Street were also originally from Staffordshire. They were labourers, forgemen, puddlers, or grocers and other trades. Perhaps they moved north to Warrington because of poor economic opportunities in the Midlands at the time.

Something happened in the early 1890’s to cause William Rayner to move to Stafforshire, and for the family to change their last name to Smith. He continued to work as a tailor. Hannah died September 16th, 1872 in Pleck, Walsall at the age of 31. His third wife was Helen Callow, who was perhaps a widow. Helen was also a “tailoress”.

Note, poor Hannah died on today’s date, rest her soul

2
Lancashire Lookup Requests / Re: Rayner family in 1901
« on: Saturday 16 September 23 15:03 BST (UK)  »
Ann and John,

My GF was William Smith b. 1884 son of William
I lost track of Bertie after the 1911 census

I have the death cert for Eliza

3
Lancashire Lookup Requests / Re: Rayner family in 1901
« on: Friday 15 September 23 21:34 BST (UK)  »
Hello,
Yes definitely a match. Since I posted this my research went as far as Nellie May marrying John Fitton, and a daughter Marjorie, although it has been awhile. I never did solve the mystery of why Rayner was changed to Smith but the imagination comes up with some speculation! My great-grandfather was married 3 times, his first two wives died at a young age.

Simon

4
Staffordshire Lookup Requests / Re: Stafford Birth Parents - SMITH
« on: Sunday 13 September 20 13:08 BST (UK)  »
Noeleen,

Thanks. On review I do not believe that this Thomas Green is connected to my research of Edward Green and family... :(  In 1861 my Green family of performers were in the London area. Interesting though!

The original thread discussion is below:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=266272.msg1511000#msg1511000

Simon

5
Berwickshire / Re: ford family
« on: Wednesday 16 December 15 12:58 GMT (UK)  »
Sorry not in my tree...

6
Lancashire Lookup Requests / Re: Manchester trade directories - 1920s?
« on: Wednesday 11 January 12 00:26 GMT (UK)  »
Barbara,

I was hoping there would be a baker listing in Openshaw. My best guess is that the bakery closed around 1929, as that is when the Depression struck. His wife was named Dora but I doubt it would have been in her name. The location on Great Jackson Street would have been early 1920s.

Thanks for the lookup

Simon
(Something to look forward to in the 1921 census!)

7
Lancashire Lookup Requests / Manchester trade directories - 1920s?
« on: Tuesday 10 January 12 19:04 GMT (UK)  »
Hello,

I am asking for help with trade directory lookups in Manchester.

My grandfather William Smith was a baker, and I believe he moved to Manchester after WW1 and operated a shop on Great Jackson Street in Hulme. Then it is believed he moved to a different store in Openshaw, which he lost during the Depression.

I am not sure what directories are out there for the 1920s or into the 1930s for Manchester.

Can anyone tell me if they have any years or address for a W. Smith, baker ?


Thanks,

Simon

8
Travelling People / Re: Manders Menagerie
« on: Thursday 05 August 10 15:58 BST (UK)  »
Have you ever come across in your tree a Manders who also worked as a stage actor circa 1850?

At the London Queen's Theatre in 1850 and 1851 there was "that established favourite, Mr. Manders" as noted in the Reynolds Weekly News paper.

According to the two articles found he performed alongside Mr. E. Green, who may be my same ancestor who was also an equestrian acrobat.

(Thanks to Eileen for pointing these articles out to me)

9
Travelling People / Re: Manders Menagerie
« on: Monday 02 August 10 19:13 BST (UK)  »
So was there a Manders troupe performing in late 1840s or early 1850s?

My ancestors married in 1848, so ideally I am curious if there was a Manders troupe in 1848 London.

Simon

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