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Also intriguing is that on 10 Aug 1823 an "Elizabeth Odle", dau of James & Ann of Maulden, Beds, Lab, was baptised at Longstanton St Michael, born 05 Aug 1823 (source: PR TX).

On 14 Oct 1838 in Rampton, Cambrideshire, a couple named James and Ann Odell (James being described as a Chair Maker), baptised their two children: Maria, 14 days old and John, "near 3 years old". Was this the same James and Ann? These were the only Odell entries in the Rampton baptisms between 1599 and 1950, so it's unlikely the pair were locals.

An65 states that Elizabeth had a daughter named Ann before she married James, baptised c.07.05.1820 Campton, Bedfordshire.

David Lazell, in his book about Elizabeth's grandson Rodney, quotes from Elizabeth's son Cornelius' book "The Life Story of Cornelius Smith":

"... Cornelius recalled that although she was 'only a gipsy', and in that sense would probably be thought ignorant of spiritual matters by most 'gorgios' (non Gypsies), she would never permit her sons to go to bed without saying the Lord's Prayer."  Hmm - were the DAUGHTERS excused prayers, I wonder?

Regarding whether the Odells really were Romany people or not, Terence Lee states in his A-Z of Gipsy Genealogies: "In Bedfordshire the surnames ALBONE and ODELL were once quite common and it is unsurprising to note that a few of them married gipsies. But it would be wrong to assume that gipsylike ALBONEs and ODELLs were more closely related to each other through their own name than to each other through their gipsy marriages."

Date & place of death [01 Nov 1873, Loughton] from Death Cert. Elizabeth is described on the certificate as Elizabeth Smith, 76 years, wife of James Smith, Chair Maker.  Cause of death: Bronchitis (certified).  The person registering the death and who 'made her mark' was an Elizabeth Smith of Loughton - no other details.  A good candidate was son Christopher's wife, if she was still alive herself in 1873 (died between the 1871 and 1881 census).  Certainly, Christopher & Elizabeth's two youngest children at the time of the 1871 census were both born in "Lowton" [sic], so there is evidence that this daughter-in-law had been in Loughton in the time period not long before 1873.

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In the biography of James' great-grandson George Bramwell Evens (aka "Romany of the BBC"), written by his wife Eunice Evens nee Thomas (see her Notes), the sons of James are mentioned as follows:

"Cornelius was one of five brothers, the others [i.e. excepting Bartholomew and Woodlock who'd been discussed previously] being known as Christopher and "Pizzler" Jimmy [the mind boggles!].  All of them were badly in need of "conversion," for they were known to be exceptionally lawless; deer-stealing in Epping Forest was one of the least of their crimes."

As can be seen, when compared side by side a lot of the above info differs vastly from the data in the list so far entered into this tree for James and Elizabeth's children.  A lot more research needs to be done here ... it just depends on reliable records surviving that can be properly attributed to *this* family (wishful thinking?).

Source for James' date & place of death [07 Apr 1875, Loughton, Essex]  un-noted.  If correct, the Death Indexes have the following promising match: JQ 1875, aged 75, Epping, 4a, 61, which would roll back James' YOB by eight years and solve a lot of the timeline difficulties. 

Certificate with above index reference purchased, but there is nothing concrete that indicates any Gypsy connection.  It must be the same certificate to which the previously-mentioned date refers, but I'm just not 100% convinced it's a match, because there's nothing 'obvious' about the certificate.  There are, however, small clues that MIGHT add up to it belonging to James. There's no full address of death, which occurred on 7th April 1875, just that it was in Loughton (registration district Epping) ... and this location does tally with that of wife Elizabeth's when she died in 1873 (also with the address solely as "Loughton"). Maybe the lack of an address indicates both were living in a wagon? Age is 75, but occupation is Agricultural Labourer - an occupation done by the majority of British non-travelling people at that time, but also something that Romany peoples did, too, on a seasonal basis. He died of bronchitis - as had his wife - and the informant present at the death was a Bathsheba Smith - an 'odd' enough forename to be a Romany, but a name not so far found elsewhere in the Smith research - whose 'address' is also just noted as Loughton. This JQ 1875 cert is - at best - inconclusive, but I've left it as part of James's 'vital statistics' until something better crops up.  The key to the certificate might lie in being able to find out more about Bathsheba Smith.

I later bought an alternative possibility: SQ 1876, Age 73, Epping RD, 4a 80, however this seems even less likely.  James Smith, Labourer, 73 years old, died 5th September 1876 in Bury Lane, Epping, Essex.  Cause of death: Diseased Heart, Dropsy.  Informant: Elizabeth Tarling, daughter, present at the death, of Bury Lane, Epping, Essex.  Currently I have no information that suggests James had a daughter named Elizabeth, much less one with the surname Tarling.  Family Search shows that an Elizabeth Smith, dau. of James Smith, married a Charles Tarling, s. of James Tarling, in Epping in 1858 ... but this still isn't much help.  I include the info to rule it out, more than anything.

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So, if I'm correct in thinking that the brothers were 70 and 99 concurrently, then word of mouth says there was around an impressive 29 year span of siblings going on here!

James and Elizabeth Odell's marriage date of 04 Sep 1824 Longstanton, Cambridge has been confirmed by kind check of St Michael's church parish register, Longstanton, performed by the Cambridge Records Office.  Both parties described as "of this parish", but this wouldn't have been unusual if the couple had been living there even temporarily (they weren't 'of' any other parish, after all!). Marriage witnessed by William Webb and Sarah Harris.

James' occupation was Basket Maker and Chair Caner.  He was also said to be a heavy drinker.  Going to public houses was often necessary for travelling Romany men to find work, and engagements would usually be sealed with a drink.  Also, Romany men often found employment at fairs and other places of celebration where liquor was drunk, so the temptation to indulge in hearty drinking was persistent (source: Gypsy from the Forest by David Lazell).

From 'The Life Story of Gipsy Cornelius Smith':

"My father and mother, James and Elizabeth Smith, were married at Longstanton, Cambridgeshire, their occupation being chair caners and basket makers.  It was their custom to travel from place to place; thus rambling to fairs, feasts, and races ... My father was a drunkard, and when he drank and smoked I tried to imitate him, and eventually succeeded ... One night, my father, coming home the worse for drink, sitting on the front of his van, fell off, and both wheels passed over his body.  He was brought home, and we thought he would die ... My father was so very ill that he wished my mother to take a cottage in Cambridge that he might go to the hospital.  She did so, and he was somewhat restored, but through this accident was a sufferer for life."

Some of the children researcher Gloria Harmsworth has listed for James and Elizabeth predate the 1824 marriage.  This could simply mean that the couple had previously been 'unofficially' married according to Romany tradition prior to the legal marriage.  More worryingly, however, is that James' own age (if considering the 1808 option) does not fit in very believably with some of the children he's meant to have fathered.  It helps that wife Elizabeth appears to be his senior by about 11 years (unconfirmed), but still!

Also, another facet of James' life would appear to be that he 'got around a bit' ... a Smith researcher (Vince Smith) on Roots Chat wrote: "I know that Rodney's Grandad was a James Smith and that he had a multitude of children from more than one woman."

Hi there - received this photo and the below text from a family tree contact and unfortunately couldn't be of help.  Was wondering, though, if anyone could reliably date it so at least we have a clue as to who they might be ...

"I hope this finds you safe and well, we have been going through some of Audrey and her mum Eliza’s bits and found this pic cut to size and tucked into one of their purses (we're not sure whose) just a wild chance that you may recognize them  😊"

Thanks for any assistance!