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Messages - Forfarian

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6805
Angus (Forfarshire) / Re: Name Spelling Variations
« on: Monday 15 October 18 10:09 BST (UK)  »
BTW, the house in question is at "Balhary", not "Balharry"...I've been there and part of it is now the local job centre.
Spelling isn't constant.

There are two houses named as Balharry with the double r in the parish of Alyth on Stobie's map dated 1783 - see https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400314 and zoom in to find Meigle and Alyth at lower right.

6806
Stirlingshire / Re: Laird & McLuckie
« on: Monday 15 October 18 10:03 BST (UK)  »
I now know where Potento was.

It's listed in various early records accessible at www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk that make it clear that it was in the parish of Meigle, but it isn't listed in the Ordnance Survey Name Books on the same site.

James Stobie's map of Perthshire in 1783 shows Potento a little way north-east of Meigle village, on the left bank of the Dean Water between Dean Bridge and a large and distinctive meander upstream of it. https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400314 and zoom in to find Meigle in the lower right part of the map.

The first edition of the Odnance Survey, surveyed in 1863, shows a farm at the same place called Cardean. https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=56.5954&lon=-3.1556&layers=5&b=1

If you click on the blue button in the box on the second map, and slide it to the left, you can see that Potento/Cardean has disappeared, replaced by a bit of woodland.

6807
Stirlingshire / Re: Laird & McLuckie
« on: Sunday 14 October 18 21:03 BST (UK)  »
Yes it looks to be Dative type, it looks like it says, "Testamantium Dativum L....". It is definitely the 1639 document. I cannot decipher much of what is written over its two pages.
Is it all in Latin, then? That bit is definitely Latin.

Quote
I think the 1580 Date of Birth for Alexander Laird was from a record on ancestry .com, if I recall correctly it was listed as "Alexr. Laird". I'll have a look.
Hmmm. Sounds as if someone was guessing that he was about 50 when he died in 1639.

It occurred to me that even though Alexander Laird is described as 'in' Cassiltoun rather that 'of' Cassiltoun, there might be something in the index to the Angus Registers of Sasines, of which I happen to have a copy. There are a couple of Lairds, but they don't shed any light:
Laird, James, in Meigle, formerly in Potento (S.3) IX.296 (bis); X.98; his spouse, See Gray, Jean.
Laird, James, in Newmilne, (S.3) X.175.
Gray, Jean, spouse of James Laird in Potento, (S.3) IX.296
(S.3) is the 3rd Series. Vol IX covers 23 March 1692 to 20 August 1698 and Vol X covers 23 August 1692 to 12 December 1700. There are three Sasines mentioning James Laird in Meigle, one of which also mentions his wife Jean Gray, and one Sasine mentioning James Laird in Newmilne. No mentions of Alexander Laird or Castleton of Eassie, and they are half a century too late to be relevant. I don't know which Newmilne is referred to, or where Potento was.

Meigle is in Perthshire. There could be references in the index to the Perthshire sasines, but I don't have a copy of that.

6808
Scotland / Re: What is Minnie short for??
« on: Sunday 14 October 18 16:14 BST (UK)  »
That's because one of my dates was for a marriage not death as I had stated previously.

I don't remember asking anyone to replicate my research.
Possibly not. But facts are chiels that winna ding. The the birth, marriage and death references on Scotland's People all list her as Minnie Ada (two separate names) not as one single name.

6809
Stirlingshire / Re: Laird & McLuckie
« on: Sunday 14 October 18 16:07 BST (UK)  »
You are perfectly correct in saying that Larbert isn't anywhere near Glamis Castle, which is not in Perthshire but in Angus.

Neither are there any records in the index at Scotland's People of any baptisms of Alexander Lairds in Eassie at any time before the start of statutory registration in 1855.

Is the 'will' you refer to the one dated 1639 in Cassiltoun, parish of Essie? I see that it is a testament dative, which means that he did not leave an actual will; if he had done so it would have been described as a testament testamentar. Testaments dative tell you only what the estate was worth and to whom confirmation was granted.

Where did the birth date of 1580 come from?

6810
Scotland / Re: Scottish Prison Registers - How to use them and where to find them
« on: Sunday 14 October 18 13:43 BST (UK)  »
Suppose someone were interested in sponsoring some indexing, how would that person find out how much it would cost them?

6811
Scotland / Re: What is Minnie short for??
« on: Sunday 14 October 18 13:41 BST (UK)  »
I am afraid that I have found it impossible to replicate your search.

There are four Minnie Adas in the statutory birth records, five in the marriages index and seven in the deaths index.

Searches for Minniada and Minnieada produce no results in the statutory birth, marriage or death indexes.

The birth index lists Minnie Ada S N Cowan, born 1903 in Glasgow Anderston. Minnie Ada Shepherd Cowan, other surname Marshall, mother's surname Angus, died in Glasgow in 1978 aged 74.

A search for Minnie Ada in 1929 in the deaths index produces no results. A search for Minn* in the deaths index in 1929, born 1903 plus or minus three years, produces two results, a Minnie Robertson Munro or Murphy and a Minnie Hamilton Wilson or Muir.

6812
Scotland / Re: What is Minnie short for??
« on: Sunday 14 October 18 11:11 BST (UK)  »
My ancestor was called Ada. This was short for Minnieada. Could also be Minnie for short.
Indeed. But the 'Minnie' part of the name is still a diminutive of something else, most likely Mary.

There is no record of a Minnieada in any of the records on Scotland's People. There is one Minniada in the 1891 census, whose bith was registered as Minnie Ada (two separate names).

6813
Stirlingshire / Re: Laird & McLuckie
« on: Sunday 14 October 18 10:51 BST (UK)  »
I'd be interested to know what you think of all this, what with it being Aberdeen, not Perthshire and a somewhat tenuous link with the uncertainty of birth date (1580/1596 - same person or father and son?).
I'm afraid it all looks very dubious to me.

For a start, the parish of Eassie and Nevay is in the County of Angus, not the County of Perth, next door to the parish of Glamis in which Glamis Castle (which is never called Castle Glamis) is situated. See https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ANS/EassieAndNevay for details. So if your research is based on sources that say Eassie is in Perthshire or refer to Castle Glamis, then I would have to question the reliability of other information in those sources.

The other thing is, don't ever guess or assume unless you annotate it so that you and anyone else reading what you have found knows it is not proved, and never believe anything you find online unless it's an image of an original document.

In particular I don't think you can equate the surname Laird with the Irvines of Drum, even on the basis that they called their eldest son Alexander. Alexander is one of the four commonest given names in Scotland and consequently is not as useful as a genealogical tool as more unusual names, or regular alternations of Alexander and a less common name.

By the late 16th century surnames were well established, and Laird as a surname is mentioned in documents as early as the 13th century. It seems to me extremely unlikely that an Irvine of Drum would change his surname to Laird, but it's not quite impossible, of course.

Incidentally I looked in Scotland's People for Al* L*r*d* baptised before 1600, and there is no listing there of such a baptism in Eassie. There is a baptism of Elizabeth, daughter of James Laird, in 1737, and no more Lairds until the 1850s, when David Laird and Jean Ann Morton had a son David and a daughter Elizabeth. According to the 1851 census this David Laird was from Inverarity. There are no records of Ir*in* in Eassie, and no baptisms of Al* L*r*d* anywhere in Scotland in 1580. The earliest one is in the parish of Dunbarney in Perthshire in 1611.

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