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Quote from: emjsw on Saturday 17 February 24 23:14 GMT (UK)

Quote from: Kiltpin on Thursday 15 February 24 18:49 GMT (UK)

The eldest son would inherit the arms on the death of his father, and so on down the line. During the father's lifetime, all the sons could use the arms but with a 'difference'. That way no one could confuse people. Who was the father?, who was the son?

Hi Chas,
I hope you are well.
You mentioned with a 'difference', if I have understood correctly this might mean the father is still alive?
I am trying to draw the Frere coat of arms (to determine their family tree & who the grandparents might be). 1 of the 6 quarters uses 3 buckles or a mullet for a difference, perhaps that means they are related to the son of who ever was awarded the arms and that the awardee is still alive?
https://archive.org/details/visitationsofcou57harv/page/n158/mode/1up?q=Frere quarter 4
Best wishes, Emma

Each of the 6 quarters relates to a different family:
Q1 = Frere
Q2 = Pymm
Q3 = Porter
Q4 = (not named)
Q5 = Bustard
Q6 = Bamfield

Only Q4 has a mullet for difference; none of the other 5 do.

The eldest son would inherit the arms on the death of his father, and so on down the line. During the father's lifetime, all the sons could use the arms but with a 'difference'. That way no one could confuse people. Who was the father?, who was the son?

Hello Emma,
Firstly, a grant of arms is to a person (usually the head of the household) and not to the whole family. The eldest son would inherit the arms on the death of his father, and so on down the line. During the father's lifetime, all the sons could use the arms but with a 'difference'. That way no one could confuse people. Who was the father?, who was the son?

The trouble is that the College of Arms had no mechanism to police the arms. If one family used the arms of another (usurpation) there was very little that anyone could do.

Added to this is the fact that heraldry was in common use long before the founding of the College. For example, none of the non-royal Dukes ever had a grant. They all assumed their arms before the college was founded.

If a wealthy merchant started to use a coat of arms, who would stop him?

The General Armory gives the same arms for Busby of Addington and Busby of Uttoxeter. There might not be a common ancestor - I would look for cousins and marriages.

Regards 

Chas

You're welcome.
On re-reading, I found that I had some words in the wrong order in clip (3) and have now changed them, but the names and relationships are not affected.