Author Topic: Hawkers  (Read 17690 times)

Offline Jane Masri

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Re: Hawkers
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 29 August 04 11:02 BST (UK) »
Hi Dylan,
Found this for you in Family Tree magazine, August issue,
http://www.passing-through.co.uk/
Also www.nwon.com/pauline/Travellers. 'page not available' came up when I went here)
Another is www.thegalloper.com but mainly deals with circus, fairground & music hall family research.

Can some bright spark explain to dim-wit me, why, when I go to copy & paste addresses for sites, as in this case, when I minimise the reply page I'm working on & go to a site to copy & paste an address my reply page disappears and I have to start all over again.  That's why I could only paste in the first html (is that the right word?) for this reply, the other two had to be typed in.
It drives me crazy when I've got several addresses to copy & paste in,
Jane
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Researching BRABY/BRAVERY in SURREY and SUSSEX

PLEASE use the look-up requests page not a personal message.

Offline M.T.H

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Re: Hawkers
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 29 August 04 13:36 BST (UK) »
Hi Jane,

I had the same problem with the reply page going when I went to look for a link somewhere else >:( You can alter the defaults on your pc so that when you open a page it opens in a new window but what I do (with the reply page open)is to click File and then 'new window'and voila your reply page stays open and another identical window will open so you can use that one for looking elsewhere on the web and your original window will stay intact ;D

Hope this helps a bit,Mick ;)
Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk.

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Offline Jane Masri

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Re: Hawkers
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 29 August 04 14:42 BST (UK) »
Thanks Mickey, I'll try that next time,
Jane
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Researching BRABY/BRAVERY in SURREY and SUSSEX

PLEASE use the look-up requests page not a personal message.

Offline dylan

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Re: Hawkers
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 29 August 04 15:18 BST (UK) »
Hi All, Many thanks for all the tips given to find my gg granddad,I have G grandmas Baptism which gives him as Pedlar, on his marriage he is given as Chimney sweep, and the three childen I have found all born diferent areas,as  he was a widower when they married and  she a widow I guess that they did'nt need to give dads name, one of the daughters is in one census as a tramp,so they cannot be called true gypsys.Having found 4 lines in my rellies search all of the roaming kind, frustrastion is growing.
Cheers
Dylan
Cleverly, Mitchell, Ellis, Pidgley. Sussex.
Clegg Yorkshire
Smith, Leeds
Pink,Surrey
Leeson , Northamptonshire


madbadrob

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Re: Hawkers
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 29 August 04 15:30 BST (UK) »
Pam,

You may want to go re read what I put and who I was replying to.  You then may want to go and re read the piece you so elequently typed up and posted to the list.  Then smoke an appology all the way to me lol

It says from your piece "Some occupations treaditionally followed by Gypsies were subject to government regulation and required licences.

As one example, those for hawkers and pedlars (*The difference being pedlars travelled on foot and hawkers by horse) were first introduced in 1697.  The PRO at Kew holds registers of these Hawker licences dating from 1697 to 1699.  These contain information on 4000 people but disappointingly few obvious Gypsy names. [NB: PRO ref A03/370 &
371"

Now lets break that down  It says Some occupations traditionally followed by gypsies and then quotes an example of Hawkers and Pedlars.  It doesn't say that Hawkers and pedlers were gypsies now does it?

Until you stepped in no one had mentioned Gypsies on the thread but you assumed that hawkers were always gypsies.  Well here's one my 3 x Great Grandfather was a hawker but he wasn't a gypsy he actually came off a good family in Derbyshire, one that is still in the same area and still going strong. 

So all in all Hawkers were not gypsies but it was a trade that Gypsies did follow. 


Offline Boongie Pam

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Re: Hawkers
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 29 August 04 19:39 BST (UK) »
 ;D LOL  ;D  Rob, I knew you'd go for that.

Not to turn this thread into a domestic, but I repeat no assumption was made about gypsies and hawkers.  Where did I say that?  Where did anyone say it? 

The fact remains pertinant though, that tracing families that roamed is difficult and in the case in point it doesn't matter whether a person is from Romany stock or not the techniques for research are similar and the Romany & Traveller fhs are very helpful. 

A point I would like to make to you madbad is that your assumption is unacceptable (sorry dylan this is a bit of a hijack)

Quote
Well here's one my 3 x Great Grandfather was a hawker but he wasn't a gypsy he actually came off a good family in Derbyshire, one that is still in the same area and still going strong. 

Are gypsys not good families?!?1?!?  How outrageous!  As one who is decended from a family of potters who are thought to be of traveller if not gypsy stock (Youngs & Lowthers) I am offended.

On a further and slightly childish note  :P

Your original note is not directed at anyone if you were talking (posting) to Sharon Sillers Floate then you're a weirdo she ain't here Honeybear  :-*
If it was directed at me then I refer the honourable gentleman to the previous paragraphs.

Anyway none of this is helping the Cleverly's get found!

Love you all,
Pam
 ;D
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~

Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier

Online intermittently!

Offline Sasha

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Re: Hawkers
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 29 August 04 21:34 BST (UK) »
Hi Dylan,
Found this for you in Family Tree magazine, August issue,
http://www.passing-through.co.uk/
Also www.nwon.com/pauline/Travellers. 'page not available' came up when I went here)
Another is www.thegalloper.com but mainly deals with circus, fairground & music hall family research.

Can some bright spark explain to dim-wit me, why, when I go to copy & paste addresses for sites, as in this case, when I minimise the reply page I'm working on & go to a site to copy & paste an address my reply page disappears and I have to start all over again.  That's why I could only paste in the first html (is that the right word?) for this reply, the other two had to be typed in.
It drives me crazy when I've got several addresses to copy & paste in,
Jane

For the site that comes up 'page not available' try this link http://users.nwon.com/pauline/Travellers.html

Sasha.

madbadrob

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Re: Hawkers
« Reply #16 on: Monday 30 August 04 00:21 BST (UK) »
Pam,

Sorry but in the time period we are talking travellers ( not gypsies they were romanies) were considered as trouble thieves vagabonds etc so yes they weren't considered good just as many today aren't.  The fact is I was responding to the fact you made a connection which inferred hawkers were travellers/gypsies when in fact the point I made they weren't. 

At the end of the day genealogy is about precise facts and when helping others we shoud be as precise.  Now back to genealogy

rob

Offline Boongie Pam

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Re: Hawkers
« Reply #17 on: Monday 30 August 04 08:02 BST (UK) »
In the interest of genealogy, I dispute what you say.

My potters of East End in Wigton believed by another researcher to be descended from Romanies (there are connections with Romany families Sewell, Young, Lovell) are extensive land owners and appear to have been respected members of the community.  This can only be inferred from the slim mentions of them at Quarter Sessions etc.

Are they a "not good" family?  If you want to perpetuate a petty prejudice that a small sector of sciety has heaped on the travelling community then that is your perogative but please do not call that precise genealogy.

Loving the banter,
Pam
 ;D
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~

Dumfrieshire: Fallen, Fallon, Carruthers, Scott, Farish, Aitchison, Green, Ryecroft, Thomson, Stewart
Midlothian: Linn/d, Aitken, Martin
North Wales: Robins(on), Hughes, Parry, Jones
Cumberland: Lowther, Young, Steward, Miller
Somerset: Palmer, Cork, Greedy, Clothier

Online intermittently!