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Topic: Blue Blood (Read 2206 times)
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Hackstaple
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 2679
Family researcher
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Blue Blood
« on: Thursday 02 September 04 10:01 UTC (UK) » |
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I am puzzled. A great many American family historians claim that they are descended from Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Sir Isaac Newton, Shakespeare, Alexander the Great and other such famous names - I have seen the Charlemagne claim many times - here is one such website devoted entirely to delusion http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Pond/7984/krslgst.html .
I am particularly amused by those who are "descended from" Richard the Lionheart and Elizabeth I, neither of whom ever had children.
Either "professional" genealogists in the States operate like fortune tellers - you hear what you wish to hear - or the descendants of almost everybody famous simply picked up sticks and went across the Atlantic. Why do the Americans, who grabbed independence well over 200 years ago, strive so hard to prove they are really British?
Why do none of these people with fabulous pedigrees claim kinship to Attila the Hun or Vlad the Impaler or Dr. Crippen? That might be more credible! 
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« Last Edit: Friday 11 February 05 17:23 UTC (UK) by Copyright Editor »
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Southern or Southan [Hereford , Monmouthshire & Glos], Jenkins, Meredith and Morgan [Monmouthshire and Glos.], Murrill, Damary, Damry, Ray, Lawrence [all Middx. & London], Nethway from Kenn or Yatton. Also Riley and Lyons in South Africa and Riley from St. Helena. Any census information included in this post is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Kazza
Welsh Lass
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1773
Looking into Holes
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Re: Blue Blood
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 02 September 04 10:23 UTC (UK) » |
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Hi Hackstaple,
Interesting question. 
I think maybe as America is a relatively young country they know it is inevitable their family will have originated elsewhere, and who knows where it could be. It is surely an attractive prospect to be the lost descendent of the Virgin Queen. And some people are more gullible than others.
This thread has an interesting post by D ap D:
http://www.rootschat.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8364.0
Maybe it is this theory that keeps people hoping?
Kazza.
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 Surname interests: Clementsten, Hobson, Hole, Marden, O'Clements, Pitten, Sharland, Vickery (Vicary), Williams. Area Interests: Cardiff, Bampton, Bideford, Crediton, Wollaston, Somerset, Tidenham, Norway, Australia to Bristol. |
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Chris in 1066Land
Global Moderator
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 6146
"Forever Searching, Forever Learning"
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Re: Blue Blood
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 02 September 04 12:35 UTC (UK) » |
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Hackstaple
I totally agree with you 100%
We often see these claims, but never see the proof.
As D&D pointed out in another thread, (incidentally a generation is normally classed as 30 years) - there were insufficient people on the earth to match up with our supposed ancestors.
If Adam & Eve were the first couple, then surely we must all be related.
Chris in 1066Land
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Darcy
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 4088
Searching for little needles in big haystacks
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Hi Hackstaple,
I just had a look at that 'dreamtime' site. Are these people serious? I can't believe it 
Aaron
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Fisher, Pitts, Lucas, Emmit, Keal, Bennett, Maddock, Jackson, Pidd, Lincolnshire Bullock, Read, White, Gloucestershire. Shepherd, Foyle, Crowter, Green, Wiltshire Strickland, Fisher, Butterworth, Brown, Northhamptonshire Shepherd, Bullock, Waterhouse, Lancashire Fisher, Goodwin, Rutland Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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howard
Guest
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Hi folks
well im in total agreement all the way,im a Seymour out of wedlock  so many lines down the chain, but im also british and proud of it......
i dont want any claim to fame only to find my grt grt grt grt grt grandpappy .........have a nice day now you hear!......
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bloomkitty
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 12
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I am puzzled. A great many American family historians claim that they are descended from Charlemagne, William the Conqueror, Sir Isaac Newton, Shakespeare, Alexander the Great and other such famous names - I have seen the Charlemagne claim many times - here is one such website devoted entirely to delusion http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Pond/7984/krslgst.html . I am particularly amused by those who are "descended from" Richard the Lionheart and Elizabeth I, neither of whom ever had children. Either "professional" genealogists in the States operate like fortune tellers - you hear what you wish to hear - or the descendants of almost everybody famous simply picked up sticks and went across the Atlantic. Why do the Americans, who grabbed independence well over 200 years ago, strive so hard to prove they are really British? Why do none of these people with fabulous pedigrees claim kinship to Attila the Hun or Vlad the Impaler or Dr. Crippen? That might be more credible!
I can only speak for this American. It's been my experience that most American genealogists aren't necessarily trying to prove royal, or even English descent, we just want to know who and where we came from. Unless one is a pure Native American, (formerly referred to as "Indians"), then every American is either an immigrant themselves, or descended from someone who emigrated here within the past 400 years. And it's the immigration records that make going beyond recent history so tricky. When we are able to succeed in struggling through the immigration records and tracing our ancestors to some place across the pond, it's a real accomplishment.
One possible theory as to why I think many people claim descent from famous folks is that the hard work has already been done for us -- the genealogies of the famous are well documented and readily available, and it therefore only takes making a connection to a recent ancestor to "hook into" the line of a more distant and perhaps famous (or infamous) one.
Recently, to our utter surprise, a cousin traced our Loper great-grandparents on my mother's side back to King Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine. Eleanor and Henry are our 22nd great-grandparents. Eleanor is supposedly descended from Charlemagne (still a bit sketchy on that one -- still some work to do there), so we list him as a possible ancestor of note, without yet having that lineage worked out completely. It just makes for fun conversation when the family gets together.
But that's all it really is -- a fun conversational topic within the family. What would mean much more to us is if we could trace our lineage beyond my father's grandfather. That branch of the family tree stops with him and has proven incredibly difficult to trace. If I were able to find out more about him and determine the names of his parents, grandparents, etc., it would mean so much more to me than this English royalty. I'd gladly throw back all that English heritage to gain more information about my Danish ancestors.
And regarding relationships to more shady, infamous folks, we haven't yet found evidence of a relationship to Attila the Hun, but my sister-in-law is descended from Dr. Mudd, the physician who set John Wilkes Boothe's broken leg after he assassinated Abraham Lincoln. Mudd's name truly is mud in America!
-Mary
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British Royal Family -- King Henry II is my 22nd great-grandfather!
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Tariana
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 32
Happy Mother's Day USA
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Actually, some may not be too far off.
Claiming Queen Elizabeth I as your gggggggggreadmother may be pushing it a bit.
Think about it, seriously. The kings and queens of long and not so long ago did at times have more than one child. Say a king and queen had 12 children. They can't ALL be king or queen of England. Granted some got married off to other nobility. Now, those 12 children each have, say 8, 6, or 5 children of their own, and so on and so forth.....
I'll do a real life example, from my own tree.
Okay a couple marries and has 6 children
From those 6 children they get 30 grandchildren, then they... I think you get the idea.
I don't have any known ancestry from the Mayflower, but I have found some royal blood. I'll put it up for critiquing? if anyone wants me to. If you can disprove a line, I'd be grateful.
http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=5921
http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=6684
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ChrisPage
RootsChat Member
Posts: 101
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Tariana
I would be interested in reading about your royal blood connection.
I found on my fathers family tree a connection to royalty, but proving it is difficult as the irish records are hard to find.
Christine
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Mathew/Mathews - Tipperary Matthews - Dublin Langron - Dublin Davies - Galway and Sligo Doyle - Dublin and Wicklow Trafford - Ireland ? Page - Balham/Wandsworth Champion - Clapham/Wandsworth Lang - Guernsey Pitcher - Guernsey Docwra - Royston Hertfordshire/Chelsea London Burgess - Chelsea and Pimlico Hession - Mayo Ireland Pateman - Litlington Cambridgeshire Norman - Clerkenwell, Islington and Fulham Census information is Crown Copyright,from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Tariana
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 32
Happy Mother's Day USA
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it is 4:30 am here in America, I need some sleep (insomniac). I will make a note to write out my royal line for you later on today.
--I just put that so you'd know I didn't forget
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MarieC
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 3345
In Queensland, Oz
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It's a human failling to want a famous ancestor to brag about!
My mother always used to say we were descended from Captain Cook. For awhile now I have known that is not possible, as he didn't have direct descendants. I have done some investigation on his siblings etc, and don't think we are descended from any of them (sigh!) Another great idea goes by the board.
But a cousin has traced one line of the family back to English royalty and nobility. I have told an irreverent friend he should now refer to me as Lady Marie of Wyalla!!! 
Here in Australia, after many years of trying to obliterate convict origins if one had them, it is now very classy if you can find ancestors who came here on the First Fleet. Doesn't matter if they were soldiers or convicts - if they were on the First Fleet, you are in a very special elite!!! (Doesn't apply to me!)
Marie
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Martins in London and Wales, Lockwoods in Yorkshire, Hartleys in London, Lichfield and Brighton, Hubands and Smiths in Ireland, Bentleys in London and Yorkshire, Denhams in Somerset, Scoles in London, Meyers in London, Cooks in Northumberland
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JAP
RootsChat Leaver
RootsChat Marquessate
Posts: 5079
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Dear Lady Marie of Whyalla,
We were always told that Henry HACKING, Quartermaster on the 'Sirius' in the 1st Fleet was ours (OK, not the elite i.e. not a convict - but would have to do).
Well, I can say with utter confidence that we certainly aren't descended from him - though there might be a connexion (sadly yet to be proven). Though I think if my rells and forebears had had any idea what a rogue that man was they would have had a fit before claiming him! I, of course, would love to have him as a rell.
You are so right about the change in attitude to convict ancestors. My lot used to bring out the passage certificates of the HACKING ancestors to prove they weren't convicts but had actually paid good money to come here in 1850.
Nowadays, I wish, I wish that I could find a convict!
Incidentally, I've just found that the ancestor I thought was named TINKLER was probably TINKER. And there was a TINKER on the 'Mayflower' - well, let's forget that he and his wife and son not only came from the wrong county but also died in the first sickness ...
Now, MCLAWS - there's another of my names. Could there be any connexion to General Lafayette MCLAWS of the American Civil War ...
Surely I can find, if not royalty, at least someone famous (or better still notorious) somewhere.
JAP
PS: My children have a sort-of convict Gg-Uncle - sentenced to 7 years transportation to Van Diemen's Land in 1848 for forgery and uttering. But, would you believe, just before he was due to set sail in 1850 he was pardoned!!!
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nutkin
RootsChat Aristocrat
Posts: 1075
My reason for digging! A baby nutkin!
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I really don't think there are that many family historians in America that think they must be famous or descended from royalty. I am sure as many people in other countries do the same thing. Americans are not the abnormality. I am rather insulted by that broad brush you paint us with. Americans all know we came from somewhere. None of us other than Native Americans were born here. I find my ancestors came from 8 different countries. Think about trying to figure out how to research 8 different vital records registrations, parish records, census (if they had one) and ways of life. A difficult task at best. Some days I work on my German line, another Scottish, then British then back to Russia.
An intersting point to remember is many of the early Americans that left Britian were fleeing religious persecution or were second sons of wealthy families that wanted to make their won wealth as the famil estate cold not be broken up any further. It was not a cheap trip over tho the colonies Many did come from nobility. They were poorer relations but had some money none the less. A pauper was not going to secure passage on the ships in the Great Migration in the 1600's. It was an economic investment.
Sorry to ramble. I could go on forever.
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Shields & Milner- Patrington & Bilton, Yorkshire Nixon & Bowers - Appleby, Broughton & Messingham, Lincolnshire Hancock &Tyson- Tetford, Skendleby & Spilsby, Lincolnshire Cochrane- Darvel, Loudon, Ayrshire Yuill, Hardie- Paisley, Renfrewshire Kennedy, Gardener & Clelland- Glasgow, Lanarkshire & Paisley, Renfrewshire Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk |
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Tariana
RootsChat Extra
Posts: 32
Happy Mother's Day USA
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I second that nutkin
I know things that I am, such as Italian, that I can't search due to brick walls. Americans, with the exception of Native Americans are basically mutts. We didn't all come from one place.
I read on the US census site, that there are more people of Irish heritage, living in America than there are people in Ireland.
--I'm still working on my royal line. I'm doing some backtracking--
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