Lamper/Trangmar(er) problems again

[Theli p]

Here I am again! My great grandparents are causing me all sorts of problems. I have asked for help before with Hannah/Anne/Annie Trangmar because the 1881 census shows James lamper with his wife Ann(e) born Fareham-Sussex and his children. I think the conclusion was that the Fareham bit was a mistake and it should be Patcham.In 1891 census the wife was called hannah, also in1901.

I couldn't decide whether the wives were actually the same person. I have the birth cert for Albert born 1882 and his mother is given as Hannah Trangmar. I have now received the cert for Annie margaret born 1875 and her mother is given as Annie Trangmar. Would they have used different versions of the same name on birth certs? It is still possible that Annie and Hannah are different people as I have found details of two separate people who could both fit.

Obviously if I could get their marriage certs it would solve it, but I can still find no trace of any marriage using all the name variants that I can think of. I have trawled through 1837 online using James Lamper from 1865-1881, free Bmd, family history online and Family search.

I have thought of another possibility! In 1871 James was on board a schooner in Alderney. I wasn't totally convinced that it was him becuase he spent most of his life working on the railways but on the latest birth cert his occupation was given as Seaman merchant service so that ties in. He was said to be unmarried in 1871 but his oldest son Alfred H was born c1869 in London. I cannot find his birth details either but there was an Alfred Trangmar born Strand Sept 1867. Does anyone think that this could be him before I try send for his cert?

Could James and Annie have married at sea. I have looked on 1837 online but nothing there. I have found out a little about the schooner it was registered at Whitstable and was sold to Guernsey.

I really would like to esablish exactly who my great grandmother was -She was the Hannah. So can anybody think of what else I can do to confirm her identity ?

Thanks to everyone who has helped me so far. It seems odd to be stuck on this relatively recent set of people. Please help.
 Thelma

[sillgen]

In 1871 there is a George Trangmer/mor and family in Westminster
RG10 141 F77 p49
George 38 Military Tailor journeyman b Sussex - town scored through
Emily 37 b Wilts - could not read place
Emily 14 b Pimlico
George 7 b Soho
Caroline 5      "
Alfred 3          "
Herbert 5 months b Westminster
That Alfred may be the one whose birth you have seen.
Andrea

[Theli p]

Hmm. That looks like a possibility! Another dead end although it is strange that there is a sussex link. How can there be a birth with no record of it? Actually I have just realised that when James was at sea in 1871 I do not know where Annie was. Perhaps I should be searching for her.

Any other ideas? thanks Thelma

[sillgen]

Anne age 19 born Patcham is at home in Patcham with Richard and Mary and brother William.  She is not married. 
Rg10 1090 F68 p11
Andrea

[janan]

Hi Thelma
Did the same person give the details for the birth certificates? For instance she might give whichever the formal name was and her husband the informal.
It is possible I suppose that James remarried between 1881 census and Albert's conception but it would have been a rush job.
Jan

[Theli p]

I hadn't thought of looking at the informants! I now have 3 certs. The 1873 one giving Annie as the mother gives the informant as A Lamper (mother). The other two 1882 and 1884 with Hannah as mother, one has x the mark of Hannah Lamper and the other says H Lamper mother.

It still looks as if they are two different people but I cannot track down a single marriage! I may send for the birth cert for 1879 to see if that confirms Annie as mother in that era. I still cannot find the birth details of Alfred H b1869 London Middlesex. I have tried all the variants of Lamper and Trangmar as surnames to no avail.


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Hopefully Thelma!

[janan]

So you have Hannah Trangmar in 51 and 61 but haven't found her in 71? Is that right? You have Anne Trangmer in 71 but she has different parents than Hannah so can't be the same person. Have you found Ann and or her parents in 51 and 61? Can you find Hannah's parents in 71?
If Alfred was born in Middlesex in 69 have you looked for Hannah/Annie Trangmar/Lamper there in 71?
There is the possibility that James and Annie/Hannah didn't marry but that wouldn't explain the lack of birth registration for Alfred

Jan

[Theli p]

Hello Jan,
I have spent many hours since your last message going back through my information and checking details but I am still stuck.

I am giving up with Ann because if she was a separate person she is not related to me. I have concentrated on Hannah Trangmar. I am fairly sure her parents were William and Sarah although there is a change of mothers name on the 1861 census when it is given as Ann and remains thaty until 1901.

1871 is the only gap for this family. I cannot find Hannah or her parents or siblings anywhere in the country. James lamper was in the Channel Isles at that time but the Trangmars were hiding very successfully.

I am at the point of giving up!

Thelma

[janan]

Thelma
The only match I can find in 1871 is Hannah Ansell born Sussex 1845 living in London - broad Sussex accent , Lamper could sound like Ansell  Worth checking her out. To add weight to my theory there is also and Aflred Ansell born Middlesex 1869 also living London - fingers and toes crossed that they are together
Jan