Project Info: Earthenware Dealers and hawkers of pots

[Jill on the A272]

Pam, I  just spotted this thread as I was passing by, I've a Broughton Atkinson in Barnoldswick, Yorkshire who was a tailor all his long life but in 1881 he was also an Earthenware Dealer, not two trades that  I would expect together.

[mariewaugh]

hi
i have Lowthers Sowerby Adams who were travelling and selling earthenware and horse dealing in 1800's in Cumberland, North England. I ahve more info and can share with you
best wishes
Marie

[Trees]

I hope this project is still live as I have recently found some earthen ware hawkers/dealers on my tree too
 James WHITEHOUSE was a hawker on the 1841 census born in Warwickshire and when he died in 1850 he was said to be 49 giving his birth as 1801.  When his son was baptised in Hook Norton in 1823 James was described as an earthenware man.then in 1824 another son was baptised in Warwick and James was described as a traveller   In 1826 and 1831 he was  down as a potter   then in 1834 he was once again described as a hawker. What is interesting is the next generation James born 1821 started his career as a policeman in 1861 then became a fruiter 1871 & 1881 However on the 1891 he is back working as a police constable. In 1845 this James married a widow Elizabeth Grimmerd nee WHITEHOUSE she was the daughter of Joseph and Ann WHITEHOUSE of whom nothing definite has been found. They are named on Elizabeth's baptism age 14 in Warwick her father's occupation given as Servant but no indication as to what type of servant, and why was she baptised at such an odd age. Elizabeth married Samuel GRIMMERD when she was 18 in St Martin's Birmingham  She was widowed and left with two young children when she married James was he a sympathetic cousin or a distant relation  Elizabeth and James had two children baptised in Warwick on one baptism his occupation was Traveller and on the other Earthenware Dealer Their son James born in 1850 was also a fruiter (1881)and dealer(hawker)(1891) he died in 1905 aged 56 and was described as a greengrocer.
Samuel GRIMMERD son of William an umbrella maker was this a Romany trade? Sam had a younger brother Edwin who was a trunk maker.again is this a Romany trade?he married the wonderfully named Euphemia Sarah Fielder the oldest of four sisters the others being Veronica, Lucretia and Josephine  these names are a bit flowery do they belong to the travelling families? They are altogether a very mysterious bunch  all four sisters tale exactly 9 years off their age on the later censuses    why???
Have I found a Romany or Gypsy family among my Warwickshire ancestors? Can anyone give me a definite answer to the question are my Whitehouses true Romany or Gypsies
Hope you can throw some light on this small branch of my tree
Trees

[brionne]

I have some later info on the Whitehouse family in Warwick.

Florence Whitehouse born 14/06/1874 at 14  Bowling Green St,Warwick,married soldier Thomas McPherson.
Florence father was a James Whitehouse fruiterer and general dealer and mother Amelia Green.
Florence and Thomas moved from Dublin where Tom stationed in the R Warwicks Reg,over to Oxford in 1920.He worked at Bisley and also ran a Territorial unit of a kind in Oxford University.He died in Oxford in 1952.
Florence died Oxford 1948.
The earlier origins of the Whitehouse family I too have been unable to get accurate.
Had no idea they may be hawkers until found this post today.
Brionne.

[Trees]

Hello brionne
 I had Florence's marriage but had not gone any further with her as she is a bit on the edge of my tree but her sister Ann Elizabeth married William PRATT in 1898 William was a son of my 2xgt grandparents and James Whitehouse(Florence's father) had a sister Harriet who married Charles Edward PRATT brother of William it isn't quite as complicated as it sounds.
You can see these PRATTS on our web site if it helps.
The biggest problem with the Whitehouses is who were Elizabeth's parents the only mention i can find of Joseph and Ann is on Elizabeth's baptism
Can we share the load with them a bit?

[davidpaul]

i have hawkers of pottery in my family their down as dish hawkers on 1911 census for stirling .a alfred yates and a james yates also their sister mary jane boag my grt grannie living in newcastle at that time.

[ROMANYGENES]

Just a note not all Earthen ware Dealers and Pottery hawkers etc were Romany thisi was a country trade long before the Rom and other travellers started to trade   same as besom making and hurdle making and brush making all country trades for the peasant classes of that era .In fact many were listed as hawkers of one kind or another  but this does not always mean they were Romany.

[Trees]

hi Romany, Many thanks for that timely reminder but how can we tell a true Romany or not. I would like to know if my Whitehouse  and Grimerrd family were or were not Romany please can you help with it? Did Romany folk ever have a permenant base where some of the children stayed while the parents travelled for example?
My James Whitehouse is described as a Hawker, a traveller and an earthenware man at various times but 4 of his known 6 children were all baptised in the same church and 3 of the children were living with a china dealer in 1851 I can't find any connection with the china dealer, Mary HAL,L and the family so why were the three all under 15 be with that lady And why did she have the three Whitehouse children and another 10 yr old Thomas Sandford and 15 year old john Harwood with her its really rather odd all the youngsters are called servants. Do the names Harwood, Hall, Sandford ,Grimerrd and Whitehouse have any Romany connection do you know?
Hope you can shed some light on it for me
  Trees

[tomwdcraftr]

Just looking at Trees coat of arms. McMullen? My GG Grandfather wasn't a traveller, but was a McMullen or McMullan. He was a shoemaker from Ireland.

My Traveller's were Todd, Drummond, and Anderson. My families have shown as potters, muggers, stoneware merchants, basket makers, Chapman pedlars, licensed hawkers, tinsmiths, and in Ontario a horse trader. For a lot, I was able to find children's birth records, but the families obviously moved about a lot because of various birth locations. However, there are very few marriage records, so they may have married within a group.

I don't really know if mine had a home base, but it seems they probably did. On my GG Grandmother's headstone it says "of Perthshire", and that's not where she was born. Also, it seemed my GG Grandparent's encouraged their children to be educated, and I'm pretty sure one was educated at Perthshire.

I don't know if there was Romany influence in my family or not. My reading about Traveller's and Romany's indicates they probably travelled in different groups, but there was some intermarriage. My family seemed to move around the border and in the Lowlands. I have also read, that a lot of people had to "take to the roads" as a result of the after effects of the Battle of Culloden, when many were thrown off the land.

I may never know for sure, so I try to study all possibilities.

Thanks!!  Tom McMillan (Washougal, WA, USA)