Author Topic: Sharing Useful Tips: GERMANY and E. Europe  (Read 76149 times)

Offline jbidaho

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Re: Sharing Useful Tips: GERMANY and E. Europe
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 20 March 05 08:02 GMT (UK) »
I've just decided to try to trace my German ancestors so thanks for the tips.  I tried the Google search for Kirchenbücher, and found this link from the IGI website :
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/images/Ger_BMD_RefDoc_HandbookGermanResearch.pdf which looks as though it gives a lot of useful information.

My "tip" for the umlauts, is that I used the character map, and looked at the shortcut - so pressing ALT and typing 0252 (only from the numeric keypad) gave me a "ü". 

Don't know if they help? 

In Germany, searching for Walter and Mocker (or is it Möcker!)   

JB
Bedfordshire: Selwyn Stokes
Devon: Boyce
East London: Boyce Bugg Dignum Gerard Girard Cotterell Sime Brotherton
City of London: Bowen Noble
Essex: Gerard Davey Tokel(e)y
France: Girard Santonna
Germany: Mocker, Walter
Ireland: Sullivan Hennessey Lee
Kent: Davey
Norfolk: Sayer Noble Bugg Watering
Perthshire: Sime
Somerset: Boyce
South London: Davey
Suffolk: Noble Cotton Bugg
Wales: Bowen
Worcester: Stokes Nash Davis
plus romany connections!

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Offline Sorcha

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Re: Sharing Useful Tips: GERMANY and E. Europe
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 21 June 05 13:24 BST (UK) »
Stupid question, probably, however:

Can German surnames be regionalised, like, are certain surnmes common to a particular area of Germany.  I'm looking for Fidell Beurle (anglicised to Bailey on the 1861 census) but the census only gives birthplace as Germany, approximately 1811.

Also, I had Fidell (or Fidel) down as a Spanish name.  Has anyone researching in Germany come across this first name often or is it a hint at more Mediterranean origins (as the family 'rumour' goes)?

Any help appreciated!!
Barrington - Liverpool/London - Ireland
Fyfe, Lindsay - Scotland
Gray, Parry, Jones - Caernarfonshire, Wales
Plimmer, Davis, Stone, Keeling, Sheldon, Holmes - Derbyshire
Nelson, Hilton, Cowley, Rimmer, Birch, Kershaw, Cryer, Brookfield, Howard, Abram, Latham - Lancashire
Kinsey, Booth - Cheshire
Birch and travellers - Staffordshire
Taylor, Warr - Oxfordshire
Beurle, Bailey - Kent
...up to now!

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Offline Janealogy

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Re: Sharing Useful Tips: GERMANY and E. Europe
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 16 August 05 07:25 BST (UK) »
Hi Sorcha,

I ran across a similar situation with a surname sounding either Spanish or Italian, Spanier, Christiani and Martini. These families German Spanier from Galizien and Martini & Christiani from Transylvania. It could steer you in the wrong direction, and who knows may be past Centuries Wars, battles, invasions etc, you never know! One can only continue to read and search.

I'm sure there are not so common names that show up in a particular area of what was once part of the Austrian Empire. My branch went to Galizen, as they were in need of good farmers and people to build up this region, for free land. My surname is now found in this region, but it is a rare name.

Jane
PS There were also "Birl" family in the same region also spelt Bierl/Bürl, which I'm sure sounds the same as Beurle
Pembrokeshire St.Dogmaels names "Davies", "Jones" William (s)  and Rees, these families moved to Cardiff, Glamorgan.
Yorkshire, surname "Burniston"
Devon, Somerset and Cardiff Glamorgan surname "Wide"

Offline Sorcha

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Re: Sharing Useful Tips: GERMANY and E. Europe
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 17 August 05 09:11 BST (UK) »
Hi Jane,

Thanks for your response; I suppose due to upheavals in Europe anything is possible - people moved and people from different nationalities or origins may have moved to Germany.

I just wanted to ask, how did you find out about the origins of your 'German' ancestors?  Did you have anything to go on?  All I have is an 1861 census return and the marriage of Fidel Beurle's daughter.  Did you have more information to inform your research?  Also, did you use research naturalisation records?  I'm wondering if it would be worth my paying someone to research these at Kew incase they give me more specific information.  I'm thinking that Fidel Beurle must have been in the country a few years, as his daughter was born in Chatham in 1844 and married in 1863; he also married Bridget, (who became Bridget Bailey) who was from Middlesex.  Maybe when he anglicized his name he became a naturalised citizen??

Questions! Questions!  Your response has given me hope and encouraged my thinking in other directions though.  Many thanks!
Barrington - Liverpool/London - Ireland
Fyfe, Lindsay - Scotland
Gray, Parry, Jones - Caernarfonshire, Wales
Plimmer, Davis, Stone, Keeling, Sheldon, Holmes - Derbyshire
Nelson, Hilton, Cowley, Rimmer, Birch, Kershaw, Cryer, Brookfield, Howard, Abram, Latham - Lancashire
Kinsey, Booth - Cheshire
Birch and travellers - Staffordshire
Taylor, Warr - Oxfordshire
Beurle, Bailey - Kent
...up to now!

Offline Janealogy

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Re: Sharing Useful Tips: GERMANY and E. Europe
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 17 August 05 10:10 BST (UK) »
Hi Sorcha,
Please don't give up!! I have no knowledge of the German language, (so don't let that scare you!)  or knew any of its history. I started my research for my husband who would have loved to have had the opportunity to have met his grandmother, but never did due to divorce and living the other side of the USA. When I started I was told her name was Catherine, and she was German, that was it!! Fortunately our surname is rare so I began by writing letter's to everyone who carried the same surname. Luck had it I received a letter from my husbands natural father's first cousin, who gave grandma's surname (spelt wrong, and later found her name was Katharina, plus her sister - two sister's married two brother's). I then searched the internet, posted I don't know how many message boards and read as much as possible. I have been fortunate as Grandma, lived in a very small village in Galizen, and someone who has now become a good friend of mine is the historian who lives in Germany. I made many, many mistakes along the way, but you learn from them. As my friend in Germany, can speak English, but cannot navigate the web in English, I took on a lot of research in English, especially the migration, for dis-placed Germans and also early 1900's migration. Logging everyone that came from this village with spelling's you would not believe. It also helped me to understand. I am not one of those people who can take in very heavy literature, just does not sink in. Doing this research on the internet, the same surnames kept popping up for this particular area. The other part that interested me was that certain families married into the same families. They're must have been status.
The petitions for naturalization in the USA are much more of a wealth of info, I'm sure they may have the same in the UK. My searches have only been in the US. All I can say is read the mistakes of others, and read the success stories.

The unfortunate part of it all is that after years possibly of research and you find the answer's, look over what you have, the answer's were staring at you all the time. That is frustrating. (eg: I was told Grandma came to Pennsylvania, I searched the port, only when I found her under a name you would not believe she came via the ship named Pennsylvania)

I also posted today for some excellent websites that I found in my research for German Genealogy.

I also want to point out that I have not spent a penny on my research on this particular family. I many years ago started my own family research and was sending checks to researchers like I just won lotto.  I found experts in a particular field, who never really had the time to research, I did the leg work. I do have now Ancestry subscriptions, but chasing several families.
I am no expert at all, just a mum, kids at school and access to the internet, and nosy bascially as far as my family genealogy.

If I can help at all drop me a line
All the very best in your new history lesson (it is very interesting)
Jane
Pembrokeshire St.Dogmaels names "Davies", "Jones" William (s)  and Rees, these families moved to Cardiff, Glamorgan.
Yorkshire, surname "Burniston"
Devon, Somerset and Cardiff Glamorgan surname "Wide"

Offline Rena

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Re: Sharing Useful Tips: GERMANY and E. Europe
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 04 September 05 20:48 BST (UK) »
On the census my ancestor gave his country of origin as "Hanover".  This was a Kingdom ceded to King James of Scotland for the hand of his grandaughter Sophie in marriage.  The borders changed during British rule until about 1900 when it became part of Germany.
 
The state are slowly putting names and the reference numbers of the emigration archives from Hannover,
Osnabrück, and Wolfenbüttel. The following explains something about using the archives:

 Searching the Osnabrück, Hannover, Wolfenbüttel emigration records is done by going to the website:

   http://app.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/findbuch/

It is a little confusing to use, especially if you don't  know German.  On the first page:
   Choose one of the three locations on the bar (look for the arrow to show the areas) & click "Abschicken"
   Go to  "Index"  in the middle  of the  page and click
   Fill in the surname you are looking for in the box "Suchbegriff"
   Choose "Personen" where it says "nach Ort"
   Click on "Suchen starten" and you will get a list of persons who emigrated from Niedersachsen with that name.  Or you may get nothing! Try the same search on all 3 locations.
   Note the number on the right column. That number will direct you to the town later.  Click on a name that matches a person you are looking for and you will get a code that will be what you use to order the record.
   Finding what area the person comes from is not easy.  On the Hannover site, it usually names a town right in the code. 
For Osnabrück it is harder, although it sometimes names the town or part of it. Don't  presume anything about the town . You need to go back to the page where you first
clicked on Index and this time click on Gliederung.
    There you will see a list of towns and if you click on the numbers on the left, you will get a listing of the numbers of people who emigrated from that area.  The numbers start with 1 and go up from there.  So if the number
is 5 digits it will be closer to the bottom of the list. But you have to go to the  one that has the number in it from the right column of the page with the list of names. When  you find the right one, the code will match the code you saw earlier tied to the name you were looking  for. I know this is confusing.  Then, you can order the records from one of the 3 locations.  The email addresses are:
  Hannover -   poststelle@staatsarchiv-h.niedersachsen.de
  Osnabrück -  poststelle@staatsarchiv-os.niedersachsen.de
  Wolfenbüttel  - poststelle@staatsarchiv-wf.niedersachsen.de
   
    You have to realize that these emigration records cover only certain years--and not everybody is listed there.  None of my relatives are.  You're lucky if you find them!!
    I would not order records until you know whether it is your ancestor. You can always write to the addresses given above and maybe they can help you.
    Rena
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy
MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell
Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar
Ross, Urray:Mackenzie
Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell
Perthshire: Brown Ferguson
Wales: McCarthy, Thomas
England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells
Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Offline D ap D

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Re: Sharing Useful Tips: GERMANY and E. Europe
« Reply #15 on: Monday 05 September 05 15:28 BST (UK) »
Stupid question, probably, however:

Can German surnames be regionalised, like, are certain surnmes common to a particular area of Germany.  I'm looking for Fidell Beurle (anglicised to Bailey on the 1861 census) but the census only gives birthplace as Germany, approximately 1811.

Not stupid at all.

Some surnames do occur more frequently in certain areas. Where I live, in the south west, there is a VERY high frequency of surnames ending in -le. This comes from the local dialect.

If you come across a name ending in -mayr, you can bet its either Austrian or Bavarian. -ski is from the former German states of Silesia, pommern and east Prussia, but also to be found around the coal mining cities in the Ruhr area. (Silesia was an enormous coal mining area, so I assume there was migration of labour).

However, since the 1870s and in particular since WW2, the state boundaries have been fiddled with. In the south west, what was 3 kingdoms, several principalities and a load of free imperial cities became 3 states after WW2 and then in 1852 Baden-Württemberg. Each area within the state having its local "colour". What makes things worse is that the inhabitants are referred to as Swabians, but half of swabia is actually in Bavaria...

So to answer your question, yes to a certain extent, they can.
Stuck with:
William Williams of Llanllyfni
John Jones in Llanelli
Evan Evans in Caio
David Davies of Llansanffraid
Evans: Caio/Carms
Jones: CDG, DEN

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Nor do I think that any other nation than this of Wales, or any other tongue, whatever may hereafter come to pass, shall on the day of the great reckoning before the Most High Judge, answer for this corner of the earth": The Old Man of Pencader to Henry II

Offline Lauraine

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Re: Sharing Useful Tips: GERMANY and E. Europe
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 11 February 06 19:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi all:

Just found that some of my "Irish" Albrights were probably German Palatines arriving in England circa 1706.  England took in some 10,000 Protestants from the "German" Bavaria area after Nantes recinded  - 2000 shipped back that were RC.  About 3,000 were sent to Ireland, some to Scotland & others to the Colonies. 

Is there a list of the arrivals from Rotterdam for the1706 group?  Are there lists for names of the 800 plus families who went to Ireland? 

My Heinrich Albright became Henry Albright - am sure he was born in U.S., but his parents may be from Ireland.  Also found Kirchner changed to Carkner in U.S.  Thx

Lauraine  :)
Researching Smith from Shetland, Herd from Arboath, Whittier, Combs from England & Wales plus Albrecht (Albright), Carkner (Kirchner) & Syrnyk (Syrnick) from Prussia. Laurenson in South Africa

Offline Lauraine

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Re: Sharing Useful Tips: GERMANY and E. Europe
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 17 October 06 16:12 BST (UK) »
Anglacized names in my tree:

Albrecht = Albright/Allbright
Kirchner = Carkner

Certainly liked the Groomsman to Jones one? ;)

Lauraine
Researching Smith from Shetland, Herd from Arboath, Whittier, Combs from England & Wales plus Albrecht (Albright), Carkner (Kirchner) & Syrnyk (Syrnick) from Prussia. Laurenson in South Africa