Author Topic: Samual Joseph COX of Wycombe?  (Read 11791 times)

Offline wrinkly

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Re: Samual Joseph COX of Wycombe?
« Reply #45 on: Wednesday 16 August 06 09:57 BST (UK) »
:) Thanks again for your helpful replies. I must not however get carried  and loose sight of Samuel Cox also. It would be nice to get more evidence about the tie up between Cox and Harris ( indeed if there is one. I grilled mother in law but could not get any fresh insights)) so I shall revisit the records centre and look at non conformists . However whilst doing so I can now do other searches in parallel now that I have got all this fresh info from you both.Meanwhile, thanks again
Wrinkly

Offline wrinkly

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Re: Samual Joseph COX of Wycombe?
« Reply #46 on: Sunday 27 August 06 13:03 BST (UK) »
:-\ I have not been able to get to records office but i have been following up your various leads. I came across one interesting find . I was rereading Valda's comments and trying to rationalize the information I had. Maybe what we had was true and the Harris name had sent me off in the wrong direction and Valda's remark that Daniel Harris may have provided the name but he was not the father could be true. The father was in fact a Samuel Cox. Samuel the younger had eventually been told that he was not really a Harris but had been born out of wedlock and his father was Samuel Cox. When he married he therefore reverted to his correct surname.
I started searching Samuel Cox again and came up with a 1881 census entry I had not seen before. The head was a Samuel Cox born in Gt Marlow about 1823. He was living at 2 Elms Place Aldershot in 1881. He was married to a Rebecca and had  children . The census however gave their surnames as Cocks with Cox after in brackets. The fact however that caught my eye was that Samuel Cox was a baker the same as Daniel Harris and that they were both of a similar age. Do you  think this is too far fetch or a stroke of luck. If you think it may be a possibility could either of you please do some look ups for me. I would be most grateful.
Thanks in anticipation
Wrinkly

Offline Valda

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Re: Samual Joseph COX of Wycombe?
« Reply #47 on: Monday 28 August 06 10:38 BST (UK) »
There is no proof Daniel was Samuel's father (or indeed he wasn't Samuel's father). If Samuel's mother was no longer living with Daniel for whatever reason and she had a relationship with someone else of whatever length, Samuel could be the product of that relationship (a valet passing through the area, met while both were working as servants)?

If Samuel wasn't a Harris (though legally that was his mother's name so would be his) he reverted to his mother's family's surname. Or if Daniel was his father he rejected any association with the Harris surname for whatever reason. There is no evidence Samuel's father's surname was Cox, and there is no evidence his father's name was Samuel - other than the marriage certificate (and marriage certificates are one of the most fabricated records there are, and should never be trusted without further evidence to back them up).

On Samuel's marriage he would want to appear legitimately born, so his father's surname would have to be the same as his own to dispense with any awkward questions or assumptions. Samuel might have been his father's name or he might have just put his own name for convenience. If he was rejecting any association with Daniel Harris he wouldn't want him named.
If Samuel was in fact his father's name he could have any surname, Samuel Smith, Brown, etc etc. There is no evidence as yet and that would be evidence at the time of Samuel's birth (bastardy order - quarter sessions records - where maintenance was claimed) that Samuel's father's surname was Cox, or any other surname other than Harris.


Samuel Cocks (1851,1861 and 1871 census spelling - 1841 census spelling Cock) was in Surrey on the 1851 and 1861 censuses and Aldershot Hampshire in 1871. His first child was born in Berkshire circa 1847 by the birth of his third child circa 1850 he was in Surrey. He was a grocer in 1851, a baker and beer house keeper in 1861 and a baker in 1871. He was an apprentice grocer in Great Marlow in 1841 but appears to have left Marlow permanently after his marriage in 1846.

Marriages Mar 1846
Cocks  Samuel     Wycombe  6 529   
Flint  Rebecca     Wycombe  6 529

He died in the Aldershot area in 1897

Deaths Mar 1897
Cocks  Samuel Charles  75  Farnham  2a 68

Samuel actually gave his father's occupation on his marriage as a valet - not  a baker like Daniel Harris in 1841 (though people change occupations so it doesn't in itself rule Daniel out).

Regards

Valda
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline wrinkly

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Re: Samual Joseph COX of Wycombe?
« Reply #48 on: Monday 28 August 06 21:07 BST (UK) »
Thanks for your thoughts. This Samuel Cox was in Surrey when my Samuel was born in Marlow ( He did seem to move around a lot)
Will just have to plough thro the records. Your comment on a bastardy order was particularly useful as I had not come across this beforeThanks again
Wrinkly


Offline wrinkly

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Re: Samual Joseph COX of Wycombe?
« Reply #49 on: Monday 28 August 06 21:18 BST (UK) »
Sorry pictures are so big but thought you might like to see who i am looking for.( Whilst file name says possible ,they have since been confirmed )

Offline NineTailFox

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Re: Samual Joseph COX of Wycombe?
« Reply #50 on: Wednesday 24 August 16 21:23 BST (UK) »
A belated thank you to everyone who contributed to the discussion.

I am tracing my paternal grandmother's line and it brings me to Alice Louisa COX born 1867, daughter of William COX born 1935 and Caroline born 1837.

In case it helps anyone else out, Alice Louisa married Alfred ATTWOOD on 13 Oct 1855 in Greenwich. The witnesses were Sarah COX and Frederick COX.

I am also busy pursuing a family legend that there was gypsy and/or traveller blood in my paternal history. Has anyone researching this particular line of Cox heard of any such rumour, or found any supporting material? (I have already posted to the Travelling People forum of this website).

Offline NineTailFox

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Re: Samual Joseph COX of Wycombe?
« Reply #51 on: Thursday 25 August 16 07:51 BST (UK) »
A belated thank you to everyone who contributed to the discussion.

I am tracing my paternal grandmother's line and it brings me to Alice Louisa COX born 1867, daughter of William COX born 1935 and Caroline born 1837.

In case it helps anyone else out, Alice Louisa married Alfred ATTWOOD on 13 Oct 1855 in Greenwich. The witnesses were Sarah COX and Frederick COX.

I am also busy pursuing a family legend that there was gypsy and/or traveller blood in my paternal history. Has anyone researching this particular line of Cox heard of any such rumour, or found any supporting material? (I have already posted to the Travelling People forum of this website).

Re William COX born 1935

I think I have found him in the Great Marlow workhouse in the 1841 Census

Aged 6

With Jane COX, aged 30; Sarah COX aged 9, and George Cox aged 5.

HO107/53/9