Author Topic: Help dating photo, please  (Read 4221 times)

Offline PrueM

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Re: Help dating photo, please
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 31 January 06 09:18 GMT (UK) »
P.S. Denn, it could be a collodion dry plate which was around at the time, but I would have thought that would have the same appearance as a collodion wet plate, i.e. milky dmax areas and appearing positive with a dark background.  This is intriguing!

Offline JAP

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Re: Help dating photo, please
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 31 January 06 09:36 GMT (UK) »
Prue, What a fascinating thread.

Zebbie, what a very beautiful photograph this is!  I've just seen this thread and my immediate reaction before reading on was ca 1860 and that the young girl/woman was between 12 and 16 yo (probably 14/15) judging from my own granddaughter of a similar age.  Though I'm an absolute amateur in this field (despite, in my distant past, having taken photos with a Thornton Pickard camera!).

I'm really looking forward to more posts which will add to my education (already increased by posts to date).

JAP

Offline dennford

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Re: Help dating photo, please
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 31 January 06 09:37 GMT (UK) »
Just a thought! we have concentrated on the plate but was the print done recently or did you aquire the print along with the plate?
                                                        Denn
Ford, Baines, Dixon, Platts, Peat, Proctor, Rotherforth, Dakin/Daykin, Sales, Beech, Hall, Parkin, Nightingale. ----- Harthill, Waleswood, Woodhouse-mill, Whitwell

South Yorkshire/Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire

Torremocha, Candog, Ramos, Reyes, Rodrigueus
-------Philippines --- Bohol

Offline dennford

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Re: Help dating photo, please
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 31 January 06 09:56 GMT (UK) »
Hi JAP,
        A little bit off topic but it's good to see someone with a Thornton Pickard - do you still have it?
I am the proud owner of aquarter plate T.P.
        It doesn't get a lot of use thesedays but is still in working order, it has an f3 aldis lens that is a little soft with age.
        The hard part is getting plates for these things.

                                           Denn
     
Ford, Baines, Dixon, Platts, Peat, Proctor, Rotherforth, Dakin/Daykin, Sales, Beech, Hall, Parkin, Nightingale. ----- Harthill, Waleswood, Woodhouse-mill, Whitwell

South Yorkshire/Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire

Torremocha, Candog, Ramos, Reyes, Rodrigueus
-------Philippines --- Bohol


Offline Zebbie

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Re: Help dating photo, please
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 31 January 06 09:58 GMT (UK) »
Reply to all.

Thanks for all comments and help on this topic - it is appreciated.

The back of the plate is black.

Prue, I have tried taking some photos, but they are not very good.

The print was done quite a few years back by a friend who ran a photography business.  The usual commercial outlets would'nt touch it and said it couldn't be done.  The friend said that was because it was too much trouble for them.

Thanks for estimating the age of the girl in the photo -  I am no good at guessing ages at all.

Zebbie

Offline PrueM

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Re: Help dating photo, please
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 31 January 06 10:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi all,

I've solved the conundrum I think  ;D

The plate already has a black backing, so that's why nothing happened when Zebbie put a bit of black backing behind it.    The plate is definitely a negative, and the pattern of the emulsion coating (with the fingerprints at the corners), the thickness of the plate, the rainbow-coloured interference patterns and the women's clothing all points to what we thought initially - date of 1850s, mid to late decade.

Zebbie, you're a lucky duck to have this, so many of them have been broken and scratched to buggery.  If the surface that isn't painted is very shiny, that will be the glass side and not the emulsion side.  However, it was pretty unusual to paint the emulsion side, so I imagine that the side that isn't painted is the collodion emulsion side.  It scratches easily as previously mentioned.  Also, the old glass can cause image deterioration (that's what is causing the interference patterns) as salts make their way to the surface and push the emulsion off.  The best way to keep the plate is (a) in the dark, (b) in the cool (not refrigerated, just not hot), (c) flat, emulsion side up, and (d) in a paper wallet.  Your local records office conservation section should be able to advise you on all that.

Sorry we hijacked your thread - you really only wanted a date but I was getting confused!!  ;D

Cheers
Prue

Offline PrueM

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Re: Help dating photo, please
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 31 January 06 10:35 GMT (UK) »
P.S. Denn:  nice camera! The best I can do is a 1913 Kodak vest pocket film camera.  Without a lens.  ;D

Offline dennford

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Re: Help dating photo, please
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 31 January 06 10:43 GMT (UK) »
Great stuff Prue,
        One final question, it may sound silly but why paint the back of the plate? - all I can think of is for protection from light But that would have meant having to clean the back if the negative was wanted again! I did think about reflective printing but in my experience it was hopeless.
                                               Denn
       
Ford, Baines, Dixon, Platts, Peat, Proctor, Rotherforth, Dakin/Daykin, Sales, Beech, Hall, Parkin, Nightingale. ----- Harthill, Waleswood, Woodhouse-mill, Whitwell

South Yorkshire/Derbyshire/Nottinghamshire

Torremocha, Candog, Ramos, Reyes, Rodrigueus
-------Philippines --- Bohol

Offline PrueM

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Re: Help dating photo, please
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 31 January 06 11:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi Denn,

When these plates were produced, there was no way of printing a positive onto paper because no-one had worked out a suitable emulsion for printing onto paper yet.  So the plate, although it looks negative, was only ever intended to be viewed as a positive.  And the only way it can be viewed as a positive is to put a dark background on it.  Painting the back was pretty common - they sometimes used bitumen to do this, and sometimes...I can't remember (and I can't find my notes!  ;D )  Sometimes though they would use black card, paper or fabric to do the job.  You can sometimes find these pictures on dark glass (like ruby glass) and in that case no black paint or backing is needed at all.

This technique of collodion emulsion on glass was popular in America and the well-known Ambrotype process is a variant of it.

Cheers
Prue