Wilson of Larbert

[wperrie]

Hi,
    Ages as given in census returns are often unreliable. The naming sequence of the Ralston / Perrie marriage is broadly right for the Perrie side ; Daniel , James, Thomas and William were all family names. And the James would also fit with the Ralston side. best wishes - W.P.

[Forfarian]

The naming sequence of the Ralston / Perrie marriage is broadly right for the Perrie side ; Daniel , James, Thomas and William were all family names.

Daniel and to a lesser extent Thomas are useful for tracking the naming tradition, but Alexander, James, John and William are so common that they are not really useful from that point of view - almost every family with enough sons has one of each of those!

[Lenagh]

Hi Thomo7,

Marion Perrie who married William Ralston was the daughter of William Perrie and Agnes Perrie or Petrie according to her DC which you’ll find on a tree on Ancestry.

Marion Perrie, the daughter of Robert Perrie and Ann Robertson married William Mackain Bruce.  You will find their marriage and five children on familysearch.

If you look here http://www.memento-mori.co.uk/32.pdf  you will find the Perrie and Bruce families in Glasgow Eastern Necropolis (Janefield Cemetery).

[wperrie]

Hi,
     John Perrie & Isabella Wilson had two children christened William; one in Barony in 1820, the other in New Monkland (Airdrie), 7.5.1831-1887,  This Wm Perrie of 1831 married Mgt Marshall and had nine children.
Best Regards  W.P.

[thomo7]

Hi Wperrie, Lenagh & Forfarian,
It's been a while! Finally, back in action I have located the copy of the Marriage Cert of William Ralston (dob 6 Oct 1833) and Marion Perrie (dob 1 Feb 1838), married 30 Dec 1864.
Maron's parents are William Perrie (cotton weaver) dec and Agnes Perrie, ms Perrie dec! The spelling is consistent on this Cert.
William Ralston's parents are James Ralston (tailor) and Elizabeth R, ms Steel.

James Ralston and Elizabeth Steel were married in Kilsyth 22 Dec 1811.

From here I have found a series of 1841, 1851 & 1861 census which have the growing family,
Unfortunately, the ages of the parents are inconsistent.
e.g in 1841 James ('taylor') and Elizabeth are both 40!
in 1851 James is still a tailor and is 58, Elizabeth 53
in 1861 James is 75, tailor and Elizabeth 68 tailor's wife.

Using this I'm assuming that James birth would be somewhere between 1775 & 1795. I don't know how common it would be for a man to marry at 16 Years old but I figured that would be a minimum.

If anyone has more information regarding James' birth or information regarding William and Agnes Perrie that would be great.

Thanks

Note; so far the Ralstons are all in Kilsyth. different streets but same town.

[Forfarian]

I don't know how common it would be for a man to marry at 16 Years old but I figured that would be a minimum.

Very uncommon indeed. The legal minimum age for a man was 14 but it's almost unheard of. Most men were in their middle 20s when they married.

Have you got James' and Elizabeth's death certificates?

[thomo7]

Thanks for the reply & information Forfarian!
14 is young indeed. I have located several possibilities for James' birth but for Death certificates so far the most likely one looks to be wrong as the widow is a Margaret Smelling and the location was Dennistoun in burgh of Glasgow (closest I could find to Kilsyth).
I will check again for the death certificates and let you know asap Thanks

[Forfarian]

Hmmm.

Elizabeth Ralston, widow of James Ralston, tailor, died in Kilsyth in 1876, parents James Steel, cotton weaver, and Mary Symmington. Informant William R, son.Her age is given as 63, which is obviously impossible if she was married in 1811.

There is an Elizabeth Ralston, widow, in the 1871 census in Kilsyth, aged 60, with a 24-year-old son Walter Hamilton, and in the 1861, aged 51, with son Walter H, 14. However as James Ralston and his wife Elizabeth are also in Kilsyth in the 1861, this has to be a different Elizabeth Ralston. And she doesn't seem to have had a son named William. In 1851 she is Elizabeth McAully, widow, 40, with son Walter Hamilton, 4, and daughter Jean Ralston, 14 In 1841 she is Elizabeth Ralston, 25, with William Ralston, 30 and Jean Ralston, 4. So apart from her age she looks like a complete red herring.

But is it credible that two Elizabeth Steels would be married to two James Ralstons, both weavers, and both living in Kilsyth at the same time?

And if not, who made what error and why?

[thomo7]

Thanks Forfarian, I was confused before!

The first Elisabeth you mention, I believe is the correct one but yes, it's weird that there is more than one. Although, (not that odd) this family not only name their children after the previous generation but almost every sibling does the same list of names.

I have Elisabeth (various spellings) Steel and James Ralston marriage 22 Dec 1811 from cert.
He was deceased by 30 Dec 1864 (son Williams marriage) but was present from my records in the 1861 census as a tailor and living in Old Town, Kilsyth.
The next page has son William R 26, Robert 24, Walter 21 and four grandchildren James, Elizabeth, Robert and Mary. (Possibly children of  Son Alexander who died at age 27).The 'parents' are listed as Head and wife aged 75 and 68 (I did wonder if they could be grandparents but then the son would be listed as grandson I guess).
The children's ages are fairly consistent with the '41, '51 and '61 Census'.
In 1851 parents are 58 and 53 respectively, James is a tailor, four sons are weavers.
In 1841 parents are 40 and 40 respectively, James is a tailor and children include daughters, Jean 15, Elisabeth 14, Alex 12, Daniel 9, William 7, Robert 4 & Walter 7mths.

I have James Ralstons death cert. married to Elisabeth Steel and parents William R (cotton weaver) and Janet Young. He died in June 1864 aged 76. I can presume (with some degree of error) that he was born in 1788.

When you look at the ages listed in the census, they were married in 1811 and didn't appear to have children for the first 15 years of their marriage. then had seven children.
I can only assume that their ages on census were a) pure stubbornness in not providing accurate info (haha),  b) they really didn't keep track of their own ages, or c) they may have had work or social reasons for providing odd ages...

re; James birth in 1788, I have located a few options around that time but haven't found one with parents William and Janet or variants yet.

Cheers for now, JT