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Author Topic: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?  (Read 7255 times)

Offline linmey

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 01 April 06 22:56 BST (UK) »
Hi Manchester Rambler,
                                       Do you happen to know the reason for it not being allowed in the US. And what was the situation in England before the reformation? Was it officially banned by the catholic church but in reality very common?
   As for the genetic risks, I work in audiological medicine and if we are investigating the reasons for a childs hearing loss and we suspect its genetic, one of the first things we check is if the parents are cousins because of the increased risks. I guess that cousins are no less a risk than the union of any other family members.
Reynolds, Woodham, Payne, Wilmott, Hart, Richardson, Packwood, Tandy, Dexter - Bedfordshire.
Chamberlain and Wagstaff- Hunts.
Freeman, Cheney, Cox- Northants.
Burns, Muter, Cobban, Hossack, Strachan, Moonlight.
Lanarkshire, Ross and Cromarty and Kincardineshire.
Garvey- Ireland.

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Offline Manchester Rambler

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 01 April 06 23:23 BST (UK) »
Hi Linmey,

From googling, I understand that out-of-date research in the US blamed various birth defects on cousin marriage, but that this is now pretty well discredited - I'm NOT an expert, however!

It seems that the genetic risk is slightly higher for children whose parents are cousins, but that only applies if one (or both) of the parents is unhealthy.  My husband is a biologist, but - nach - is now asleep, so don't think this is the moment to ask him for an explanation!  ;D

However, he has frequently pointed out to me that it's normal for our kids to be healthy because they're hybrids...  ???  ???  (He's Swiss, I'm English!)

I don't know how common cousin marriage was before the Reformation, but my uncle (who researched Mum's family) has found at least one case among my Irish Catholic ancestors in the 1800's.

I'll try and find out more on the biological pros and cons tomorrow, but I'm about to keel over and go to bed - 17th wedding anniversary today, and far too much champagne is starting to have its effect....  ;D

Rambler   (Or perhaps Staggerer ismore accurate right now!)
ANT: Nesbit, Potts; CHS: Gosling (Hazel Grove/Lymm), Hinton (Lymm), Johnson (Hazel Grove), Marsland (Hazel Grove), Massey (Daresbury), Sorton (Warmingham); LAN: Jackson, James, Potts (Manchester/Salford); MAY: Caulfield, Griffin (Leveelick); SAL: Goodwin, Johnson (Bridgnorth), Gregory (Wellington); STS: Goodwin, Gregory, Johnson (Wolverhampton); Hallett (Trysull); SOM: Dowding, James, Jones (Bath)

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline linmey

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #20 on: Sunday 02 April 06 07:05 BST (UK) »
Congratulations on your wedding anniversary Rambler. Hope you dont have too much of a hangover in the morning.
        Thanks for the explanations. I am just trying to figure out why the protestant churches vary from each other as well as being different to the catholic church. I guess there are always differences when things are not scriptural as such. Knowing when the Book of Common prayer was written I am wondering if it had anything to do with marriage within the royal family. They of course often married relatives. ( And their brothers widows)!!!
     Perhaps your husband will have more of an idea as to why cousins may be missed off the list from a genetic point of view.
   Hope he didnt have too much champagne last night.
         Best wishes  Linda.
Reynolds, Woodham, Payne, Wilmott, Hart, Richardson, Packwood, Tandy, Dexter - Bedfordshire.
Chamberlain and Wagstaff- Hunts.
Freeman, Cheney, Cox- Northants.
Burns, Muter, Cobban, Hossack, Strachan, Moonlight.
Lanarkshire, Ross and Cromarty and Kincardineshire.
Garvey- Ireland.

Census Information Is Crown Copyright From--
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Gadget

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 02 April 06 08:37 BST (UK) »

     Perhaps your husband will have more of an idea as to why cousins may be missed off the list from a genetic point of view.


My congratulations as well  ;D

If I recall from A level Biology, it's something to do with Mendelian genetics - curly and straight peas, etc.  ::)

Gadget
Census &  BMD information Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk and GROS - www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Offline linmey

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #22 on: Sunday 02 April 06 08:41 BST (UK) »
Hi Gadget,
                  I remember Mendels peas. Very interesting. I hope Ramblers husband comes up with the answers, if there are any.
           Linda.
Reynolds, Woodham, Payne, Wilmott, Hart, Richardson, Packwood, Tandy, Dexter - Bedfordshire.
Chamberlain and Wagstaff- Hunts.
Freeman, Cheney, Cox- Northants.
Burns, Muter, Cobban, Hossack, Strachan, Moonlight.
Lanarkshire, Ross and Cromarty and Kincardineshire.
Garvey- Ireland.

Census Information Is Crown Copyright From--
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Manchester Rambler

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 02 April 06 09:48 BST (UK) »
Right!

We inherit half our genes from each parent, but brothers and sisters don't end up with exactly the same mix (apart from identical twins).  One generation later, the mix has been further diluted by marriage, but cousins still share more genes than the general population.  If there is a genetic problem in the original family, apparently healthy family members may still carry a recessive gene for that problem.  When two carriers of a recessive gene marry, there is a high risk of that gene becoming "active" in their children.   

According to my husband, any recessive gene in the original family has one chance in 64 of coming out in the children of first cousins.  The problem with most recessive genes is that they can't be spotted beforehand.

But this is modern science, and I suppose church and state based their marriage laws on other factors, including keeping money/land in the family, and whether or not it seemed to them that there were more sickly offspring from cousin marriages.  In small non-mobile communities, there was so much intermarriage between families, that the gene pool was very small anyway, so the genetic risk of cousin marriage was less evident.

Rambler

ANT: Nesbit, Potts; CHS: Gosling (Hazel Grove/Lymm), Hinton (Lymm), Johnson (Hazel Grove), Marsland (Hazel Grove), Massey (Daresbury), Sorton (Warmingham); LAN: Jackson, James, Potts (Manchester/Salford); MAY: Caulfield, Griffin (Leveelick); SAL: Goodwin, Johnson (Bridgnorth), Gregory (Wellington); STS: Goodwin, Gregory, Johnson (Wolverhampton); Hallett (Trysull); SOM: Dowding, James, Jones (Bath)

Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline kerryb

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 02 April 06 09:52 BST (UK) »
We so much of my family tree all being based in a handful of small villages in Sussex, my only surprise is that I haven't found any intermarriages as yet!!!!!

I do however have two strands of Winchester that I have not been able to link up yet.  :)

Kerry :) :) :)
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Offline suttontrust

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 02 April 06 10:12 BST (UK) »
Although people only recently understood the science behind avoiding close kin marriages, nearly all cultures from earliest times knew it wasn't a good thing.  It was common sense to bring in "fresh blood".  Sometimes politics overrode that, hence Egyptiam pharaohs marrying their sisters and, more recently, a certain amount of inbreeding in the aristocracy to keep property in the family. 
Godden in East Sussex, mainly Hastings area.
Richards in Lea, Gloucestershire, then London.
Williamson in Leith, Vickers in Nottingham.
Webb in Bildeston and Colchester.
Wesbroom in Kirby le Soken.
Ellington in Harwich.
Park, Palmer, Segar and Peartree in Kersey.

Offline Gadget

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 02 April 06 10:15 BST (UK) »

I do however have two strands of Winchester that I have not been able to link up yet.  :)


and I've got two Stokes lines: my grandmother's grt grandmother was a Stokes. Her husband's mother was also a Stokes. Like you, I can't find the connection at the moment - grandad's Stokes line is stymmied  by lack of a birth record in 1775  :( But  these were small communities.

Gadget

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