Author Topic: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?  (Read 17128 times)

Offline linmey

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 01 April 06 21:28 BST (UK) »
Well, I remember being a bored choir girl and spending lots of time looking at the Kindred and Affinity table in The Book of Common Prayer and I am pretty sure the marriage of first cousins was not forbidden. We need Suttontrust, Behindthefrogs, and Guy on this one. It is certainly not listed anyway.
  I guess today, with a larger population and more population mobility it seens more unusual and not quite so acceptable.
   
Reynolds, Woodham, Payne, Wilmott, Hart, Richardson, Packwood, Tandy, Dexter - Bedfordshire.
Chamberlain and Wagstaff- Hunts.
Freeman, Cheney, Cox- Northants.
Burns, Muter, Cobban, Hossack, Strachan, Moonlight.
Lanarkshire, Ross and Cromarty and Kincardineshire.
Garvey- Ireland.

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Offline prozac

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 01 April 06 21:32 BST (UK) »
Its not so much a secret, or inbreeding as such, but recent researching has confirmed things my mother was told before her mother died.

My great grandparents had 3 children, the youngest being my nan, then my great grandied died.  My Great nan remarried and they had two more children. 

My nans first husband, was her step dads cousin.  My moms dad was the cousin of who at the time was the only grandad she knew about!

We've also found out that my moms granddad on her fathers side and step grandad on her mothers side were both called Walter Machin, and of course, were uncle and nephew. 
Nottingham/Derby - Alvey, Machin, Scott, Stevenson, Redfern, Lowe, Coupe, Bowler, Strutt, Miller
Worcestershire - Burrows, Smith, Machin, Hardman, Nash, Sanders/Saunders, Davis, Adams
Buckinghamshire - Burrows, Woodward, Adams
Ireland (Dublin/Malahide/Cork) - O'Driscoll, Henvy, Gallaghan

Offline linmey

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 01 April 06 21:37 BST (UK) »
Gets confusing when you try putting it into Family Tree Maker!!! I work with 2 people of the muslim faith and marrying cousins is not allowed in their tradition.
Reynolds, Woodham, Payne, Wilmott, Hart, Richardson, Packwood, Tandy, Dexter - Bedfordshire.
Chamberlain and Wagstaff- Hunts.
Freeman, Cheney, Cox- Northants.
Burns, Muter, Cobban, Hossack, Strachan, Moonlight.
Lanarkshire, Ross and Cromarty and Kincardineshire.
Garvey- Ireland.

Census Information Is Crown Copyright From--
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline GalaxyJane

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 01 April 06 21:54 BST (UK) »
Golly, I live in Turkey, a Muslim country  and practically everyone in the country districts marries their first cousin.
           So maybe it's a tradition that varies from Muslim country to Muslim country
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Offline suttontrust

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 01 April 06 21:55 BST (UK) »
Most of us trace our ancestors back to small villages, where they seem to have lived for several generations.  In those little communities it would be surprising if a certain amount of "inbreeding" didn't occur.  People generally tried to avoid it, but first cousin marriage was not uncommon.  And I've posted before about Ernest whose mother was also his sister-in-law!
Godden in East Sussex, mainly Hastings area.
Richards in Lea, Gloucestershire, then London.
Williamson in Leith, Vickers in Nottingham.
Webb in Bildeston and Colchester.
Wesbroom in Kirby le Soken.
Ellington in Harwich.
Park, Palmer, Segar and Peartree in Kersey.

Offline liverpool annie

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 01 April 06 22:11 BST (UK) »

These are  "the rules" in Northern Ireland these days ..... ! - wonder how much it has changed ??

Type of Relationships Within Which Marriage is Unlawful

(i) Relationships by consanguinity
A man may not marry his:-   A woman may not marry her:-
Mother   Father
Daughter   Son
Grandmother   Grandfather
Granddaughter   Grandson
Sister   Brother
Aunt   Uncle
Niece   Nephew
Great-grandmother   Great-grandfather
Great-granddaughter   Great-grandson
    
(ii) Relationships by affinity
(a) Except in the circumstances explained in note (a) below.
A man may not marry his:-   A woman may not marry her:-
Former wife’s daughter or granddaughter.   Former husband’s son or grandson.
Father’s or grandfather’s former wife.   Mother’s or grandmother’s former husband.
    
(b) Except in the circumstances explained in note (b) below.
A man may not marry his:-   A woman may not marry her:-
Former wife’s mother.   Former husband’s father.
Son’s former wife.   Daughter’s former husband.
    
(iii) Relationships by adoption
A man may not marry his:-   A woman may not marry her:-
Adoptive mother or former adoptive mother   Adoptive father or former adoptive father.
Adopted daughter or former adopted daughter   Adopted son or former adopted son.


Notes
a)Parties related within the degrees listed at 2a must be 21 years of age or over at the time of the marriage and the younger party must not, before his or her 18th birthday, have lived in the same household as the other party and been treated by that person as a child of the family.

b)Parties related within the degrees listed at 2b must be 21 years of age or over at the time of the marriage and the family members involved in creating the in-law relationship must both be deceased, eg for a man to marry his daughter-in-law, both his son and his son’s mother (usually but not always his wife) would require to be deceased.

Annie  :)
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Offline Gadget

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 01 April 06 22:23 BST (UK) »
Well, I remember being a bored choir girl and spending lots of time looking at the Kindred and Affinity table in The Book of Common Prayer and I am pretty sure the marriage of first cousins was not forbidden. We need Suttontrust, Behindthefrogs, and Guy on this one. It is certainly not listed anyway.
  I guess today, with a larger population and more population mobility it seens more unusual and not quite so acceptable.
   

As far as I can remember from my Book of Common Prayer - still have one I had as a communion present somewhere - first cousins were the closest kin that were allowed to marry.


Gadget
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Offline linmey

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 01 April 06 22:29 BST (UK) »
Yes Gadget, you are right and I have just looked at my Book of Common Prayer to double check. What Annie has posted looks like it agrees as well.
    I think the muslim tradition does differ because these are shia muslims from Iraq. I was surprised as well!!!
   But as Suttontrust says, it must have been common.
Reynolds, Woodham, Payne, Wilmott, Hart, Richardson, Packwood, Tandy, Dexter - Bedfordshire.
Chamberlain and Wagstaff- Hunts.
Freeman, Cheney, Cox- Northants.
Burns, Muter, Cobban, Hossack, Strachan, Moonlight.
Lanarkshire, Ross and Cromarty and Kincardineshire.
Garvey- Ireland.

Census Information Is Crown Copyright From--
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Manchester Rambler

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Re: Inbreeding. Have You Been Surprised By What You Have Found Out?
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 01 April 06 22:47 BST (UK) »
The Bible doesn't forbid marriage between cousins - the list of prohibited relationships can be found in Leviticus 18.  Cousin marriage was banned by the Roman Catholic church under Pope Gregory I, but the Protestant church (including  Anglicans) has always permitted it, except in the US.

Albert Einstein and Charles Darwin both married their first cousins!

In the past, marriage between cousins was frequent, and probably inevitable, as Suttontrust pointed out, but the genetic risk is slight, unless there are nasty recessive genes floating around in the family...  :(

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