Need a challenge? try this one for a look up

[JAP]

AnnieCJ,

You said that your Charles was supposed to have been born in Yorkshire ca 1848 and that his father George was a Commercial Traveller.

Have you checked out the parents of Charles Edward FAWCETT (b Shrewsbury Shropshire) in earlier censuses to see whether his father George was a Commercial Traveller or anything similar?

Have you checked out, in say the 1851 and 1861 censuses, all the Charles FAWCETTs born say 1850 +/- 5, to see if you can find one with a father George with the appropriate occupation?

JAP

[Arranroots]

AnnieCJ,

You said that your Charles was supposed to have been born in Yorkshire ca 1848 and that his father George was a Commercial Traveller.

Have you checked out the parents of Charles Edward FAWCETT (b Shrewsbury Shropshire) in earlier censuses to see whether his father George was a Commercial Traveller or anything similar?

Have you checked out, in say the 1851 and 1861 censuses, all the Charles FAWCETTs born say 1850 +/- 5, to see if you can find one with a father George with the appropriate occupation?

JAP

Hi JAP

Great work there!

Charles E's dad George is a travelling book seller in at least one census      Edit:  (1851 HO107/1992/518/3 )

A 

[AussieGenealogy]

Yes this is the family I have been tracking with interest, as it seems to fit in with what I know about Charles V.

The only differences are the birthplace Charles E  born in Shropshire and Charles V -- apparently in Yorkshire.
Also there is no mention of a son on the death cert an oversight perhaps by the informant??
One could also say the informant remembered the girls being born in Yorkshire so dad was too?

As you can see there is only one George Fawcett - commercial traveller in the census after that he worked in a printing business with Charles  E and then Charles E  later became a Estate Agent in Nottinghamshire.

I have been searching for a Charles with Valinder as a middle name but none seem to show up anywhere.

I also haven't found any military records or immigration records for him so maybe he was a stow away after all I can understand the "jumping ship"  part then.

As for the cricket part unless he played for England back then its a bit of useless information!

So from what we know so far do you think Charles E and Charles V are the same person?

Doesn't explain the Valindar though.

[JAP]

Hi AnnieCJ (and Arranroots),

Some more thoughts and some more questions.

Unfortunately I don't have access to census data or I'd try looking for this 'needle'?  Incidentally, where and with whom were the children of Charles Edward in 1891?  Though, of course (promising and all as he looks), Charles Edward might be a complete red herring.

You mentioned that you have the Coroner's Report and a newspaper cutting - do they have any further snippets of information?  Have you searched for a Death Notice anywhere, possibly inserted by widow Mary Ann?  Did Charles leave a Will?  If these avenues haven't been pursued already, perhaps they would be worth checking.

Some of the death cert I can't make out, particularly Charles's age (section 4) and birthplace (section 11) - the first letter of the latter doesn't look like the 'Y' in Yorkshire in section 12 but perhaps that's just the blurred image.

Thinking further about the death cert, it seems certain that his widow Mary Ann (JONES) was not the person who supplied the information.  If she had, she would have provided the details of her own marriage to Charles, her own name as his wife, and the names of their children (as well as anything she knew about any previous marriage or previous issue).

Perhaps the information was provided by someone he'd been talking to (workmates?) around the Mt Morgans area?  Presumably Mary Ann and the children weren't with him at the time else people would surely have known about them and they'd surely have been mentioned on the dc?  And it seems that, for whatever reason, he'd not mentioned his Australian wife and children?  It seems that he had mentioned that he had two daughters in England - so, if Charles Velinder and Charles Edward are the same person, one wonders why he did not mention a son as well (though whoever gave the information might have forgotten this).  Whatever the reason, it does seem that the information on the dc cannot be relied on (so Yorkshire may be a total red herring).

The family folklore about Charles Velinder having been in the Army in India is interesting and might be worth exploring further - there are RootsChatters who know plenty about Army matters.  Are there any family members who might have more information ... 

Just to summarize what is known about Charles Velinder (so I don't have to keep looking back) - uncertain information in italics. 
Name:
  Charles Velinder FAWCETT (signature on mc)
Occupation:
  Painter (mc, bc of son Charles, dc)
  Miner (bc of daughter Winifred)
Date of birth:
  ?Ca 1848 (dc)
Place of birth:
  ?Yorkshire (dc)
Name of father:
  George FAWCETT (mc)
Occupation of father:
  Commercial Traveller (mc)
Marriage:
  Married in Perth in Mar 1887; listed as a Bachelor (mc)
  ?Married in Yorkshire (dc); name of spouse unknown
Issue:
  Charles Valender 1887 Perth (WA Index)
  Sarah Beech 1889 Perth (WAI)
  Leslie Roy 1892 Southern Cross (WAI)
  Winifred 1895 Albany (WAI)
  ?Two daughters in England; no further information (dc)
Death:
  16 Oct 1905, Lime Kilns near Mt Morgans, north of Laverton, WA
Family Folklore:
  ?Charles was in the army in India and played cricket there; he jumped ship in Australia

Good luck!

JAP

[AussieGenealogy]

Hi Jap

Yes you have it in a rather large nutshell....LOL...
Now you can see why I said a challenge...


In 1901 census Harriet,Frank & Ethel are living with Harriet  Gilman -  Mary Hannahs (nee Gilman) sister,Parish of Bingham in Nottinghamshire, Frank is 23, Ethel 21 and Harriet 17.
I am yet to locate them on the 1891

[AussieGenealogy]

I found Harriet in 1891 with her grandparents - the Gilmans in Nottinghamshire! WooHoo!!!!

[JAP]

AnnieCJ,

Good!

Keep searching!

For Frank and Ethel Amy.  And for Charles Edward and Mary Hannah in case they were still alive/around 

JAP

[JAP]

Hi AnnieCJ,

Did you notice in FreeBMD the death of a Charles Edward FAWCETT, Jun qtr 1889, age 38, Shardlow Nottinghamshire?

This would be just the right age for Charles E. FAWCETT the Estate Agents Clerk in Nottingham b Shrewsbury who was 30 in the Apr 1881 census ( Charles Edward FAWCETT b Dec 1850 in Shrewsbury).

I can't see another likely Charles FAWCETT in the 1881 census.

According to Genuki, Shardlow registration district spanned the borders of Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire and Leicestershire; and those parishes which were in Nottinghamshire weren't far from Nottingham ...

JAP

[Koromo]

Following up the cricketing angle, there are only two Fawcetts born in the 19th century listed in Wisden's Almanack (online at CricInfo):

Full name Edward Boyd Fawcett
Born October 10, 1839, Poona (now Pune), Maharashtra, India
Died September 26, 1884, Teignmouth, Devon (aged 44 years 352 days)
Major teams Cambridge University, Sussex
Batting style Right-hand bat
Bowling style Right-arm fast-medium (roundarm)

Full name Arthur Henry Fawcett
Born September 16, 1880, Sculcoates, Hull, Yorkshire
Died January 11, 1957, Stannington, Northumberland (aged 76 years 117 days)
Major teams Europeans (India), Gentlemen
Fielding position Wicketkeeper

All it does is show that there has been a link between the Fawcett name and the game of cricket.


I've also been Googling to see where the Velinder name has come from, in particular if it had anything to do with India as there appears to be a Fawcett family living there in the 1840s (above). No towns called Velinder/etc. So far I've found ONE instance of it, a Mr. Velinder Vij, the managing director of an Indian company. It doesn't seem to be a common name in that part of the world, but does pop up on some Swedish sites.

On RootsWeb's WorldConnect trees, there is a Vellender family, originating in Gloucestershire with variant names: Felender, Velinder.

Purely idle speculation ...


Koromo