ARMSTRONG MI's Newcastleton.

[loo]

P. S. 
I don't want to trouble you too much, Bougie, with trying to find additional people in that cemetery in my lines.  I strongly suspect that most of the people whose names I gave you earlier emigrated to Canada, so won't be found in Scotland.  If they didn't emigrate, I don't think it would be easy to determine which ones they were exactly in Scotland, as there are so many with the same names!

I am curious, though, about two things:

(1) whether there are more NIXONs.  Mostly wondering how common the name is/was there, not really expecting to make a link that far back.

(2)  did you find Charles MURRAY and his wife Mary LITHGOW in that cemetery?  They would have been born in approx the 1720s or '30s, but I have no idea when they died except that it would be after 1756.

Thanks again.

[bougie]

 Hi Loo
 I did a quick check for you and there isn't another couple with the names that you are looking for in the time frame that you mention. Nixon is not as common a name as Armstrong in this area although it is still a well known Border family name.
The cemy containing the gravestone is Ettleton which is about a mile or so south of Newcastleton on the Canonbie road.
I think that Elliojos maybe a wee bit mixed up with the cemy name as Ettrick is in a different area altogether [ Selkirkshire ]
If you ever manage to make the trip over here there is an Armstrong Heritage centre in Newcastleton where you can research your Armstrong roots free of charge , or the Hawick Heritage Hub where you can research all Border families
, also free of charge. It is possible to find your ancestors back to 1538 when the records started although i have only managed to get back to the mid 1600s with mine.
There are some very old graveyards in the area, one of them being Canonbie, which contains graves dating back to the mid 1600s so you may still find some more of your ancestors in them.
 The next time that i go to Newcastleton i will look for Charles Murray and Mary Lithgows grave.
 bougie

[loo]

Your information is extremely helpful, Bougie.
I would love to get to these research centres sometime.  I'd always heard that Scottish records didn't go back very far in most cases, so it's exciting to learn that some of mine might go back to the 1500s.  I have some in Argyllshire, where there apparently aren't records before about 1800.  I'm really not familiar with Scottish records.  I have another lot in Dunfermline, but I haven't gotten into that yet.

Thank you very much for your ongoing help.

[bougie]

 Hi Loo
 Ifound this among some of my armstrong data and thought it could possibly be your Thomas Armstrong as the dates match.
29/10/1796 To JAMES ARMSTRONG and ISABEL TURNBUL a son THOMAS at Castleton
05/08/1805 To JAMES ARMSTRONG and ISABEL TURNBUL a daughter ISABEL at
 Castleton
 bougie

[loo]

  Here's more
  Andrew Armstrong/Jane Morton, Andrew Armstrong/Jane Murray,
 John Armstrong/Helen Nixon, Adam Armstrong, Archibald Armstrong/
 Isabella Kyle, James Armstrong and brother John Armstrong,
 Walter Armstrong, Walter Armstrong/Janet Veitch, Archibald Armstrong,
 Charles Armstrong/Janet ? , James Armstrong/Isabella ? , James Armstrong/
 Margaret Little, James Armstrong,
 Andrew Armstrong/Isabella Aitchison, John Armstrong/Margaret Barclay,
 Andrew Armstrong/Sarah Bell, Thomasina Armstrong, Frank Armstrong ,
 James Armstrong/Janet Turnbull, Andrew Telfer Armstrong,
  These graves all date from late 1700's to very early 1900's but most of
 them are mid 1800's . I have more information on them all if anyone's
 interested.
  bougie

Well done, Bougie.
So, I'm thinking that very near the grave of John ARMSTRONG and Helen NIXON is that of a James ARMSTRONG and an Isabella ____?  I'm wondering if you have any more info on the latter pair.  Does it look like these could be the parents of Thomas and Isabel?

loo

[bougie]

 Here's the mi on that one Loo
IN MEMORY OF JAMES ARMSTRONG, DIED AT RIGGARTON MILL ON 3RD JANUARY 1812 AGED 59 YEARS AND HIS WIFE ISABELLA , DIED 12TH MARCH 1814 AGED 58 YEARS
Also in another grave nearby
IN MEMORY OF JAMES ARMSTRONG DIED AT RIGGARTON MILL ON 12TH MAY 1855 AGED 63 YEARS ALSO HIS WIFE MARGARET LITTLE DIED 16TH JULY 1855 AGED 60 YEARS.
I think the second James could be the son of this James and Isabella. If so he was born c1792 when this James and Isabella would have been 39 and 36 respectively. They would have been 43 and 39 when Thomas was born and 52 and 48 or 49 whan Isabel jnr was born.
It is a possibility . In those days many children were born when their mothers were in their late forties.
What do you think
bougie

[loo]

It's a bit of a stretch, but I suppose it's possible.
I have not run into any births in mothers past 47 yet!
Another factor is that often people were not too precise about ages.
I do know that my Thomas was born in Castleton 1796 or 1797.  So, if he is the only one on the register by that name in that time frame, it almost has to be him. The fact that you have him b.Oct. suggests that he was born in 1796 and probably baptized in 1797, which would fit with the two years in question.

If there is no birth surname on the MI for Isabella wife of James of Riggarton Mill, then this may or may not be the right one.  I was hoping that perhaps her surname had not been clear when you visited the cemetery, but that it might be clearer if you had the clue of TURNBUL.  If it is merely absent, then perhaps we are not much further ahead on that one, as the names are relatively common.  Do you know if your question mark meant that there was no surname for her, or just that you couldn't read it?

The fact that Isabella died in March (1814) at 59yrs pushes her birthdate quite possibly back into 1754.  Given that baby Isabella was born in Aug 1805, it is like that Isabella senior was by then 51 years, at least 50, if the numbers are correct.   Help me if I've got the math wrong on that.

The location Riggarton Mill has not yet appeared in any other information that I have.

Certainly there were people named LITTLE who also moved to Canada in the same entourage I think.

Thanks for the extra info.  It could still turn out to be the right people!

[bougie]

 Sorry Loo, there was no surname present for this Isabella. I had to look back to my origional scribblings for that one and during my search i found that there is something that i omitted to add on your Armstrong/Nixon mi. Here it is in full.
IN MEMORY OF JOHN ARMSTRONG IN BURNMOOR , DIED FEBUARY 17TH 1789 AGED 67 YEARS, JOHN HIS SON AGED 3 YEARS AND ADAM DIED NEWCASTLETON 9TH SEPTEMBER 1808 AGED 43 YEARS ALSO HELEN NIXON WIFE OF THE ABOVE JOHN , DIED APRIL 16TH 1826 AGED 92 YEARS.
When i wrote them out again at home i must have shortened it for convenience
but for a good job i held onto my origional notebook.
bougie

[loo]

Thanks for the extra bits, Bougie.

It's a pity Isabella didn't manage to leave us with her name intact! lol


Just one question, for clarification:

In the first listing for this headstone which you gave, you said
"IN MEMORY OF JOHN ARMSTRONG OF BURNMOOR, DIED 17TH FEBUARY 1789
AGED 67 YEARS, ALSO HIS WIFE, HELEN NIXON, DIED 16TH APRIL 1826 AGED
92 YEARS.
Next to it another grave reads
IN MEMORY OF ADAM ARMSTRONG, SON OF JOHN ARMSTRONG, BURNMOOR,
WHO DIED AT NEWCASTLETON ON 9TH SEPTEMBER 1806 AGED 43 YEARS."

In the second one, you said:
"IN MEMORY OF JOHN ARMSTRONG IN BURNMOOR , DIED FEBUARY 17TH 1789 AGED 67 YEARS, JOHN HIS SON AGED 3 YEARS AND ADAM DIED NEWCASTLETON 9TH SEPTEMBER 1808 AGED 43 YEARS ALSO HELEN NIXON WIFE OF THE ABOVE JOHN , DIED APRIL 16TH 1826 AGED 92 YEARS."

In retrospect, do you think there were two headstones, both of which named this Adam who died at age 43?  If not, do you think he died in 1806 or 1808?
I know how difficult it can be to get all these things down when you're out visiting a cemetery and all the names are so similar etc.  Just wondering if you are able to clarify, as you never know when some tiny detail may prove significant!

Thanks,
loo