ARMSTRONG MI's Newcastleton.

[loo]

thanks;  I will let you know. 
There is a book I recently discovered called Dictionary of Scottish Emigrants to Canada before Confederation, 4 volumes, by Donald WHYTE, who is/was apparently a famous Scottish genealogist.  I know that they are listed in there, but I don't know how much detail yet.  am waiting for the book to arrive through interlibrary loan.

[loo]

Said book has arrived - at least, volume 1 of 4.

In this book, the couple I am interested in are listed as follows:

"ARMSTRONG, Thomas.  From Castleton, ROX.  To Queensbury par. York Co. NB prob 1819.  m.Agnes MURRAY.  children:  Adam, James (alive 1877), Charles, Catherine, Elizabeth."  The source for this information is said to be a letter to the author, 16 July 1979.  Based on census information, I would say Thomas was born about 1796-1797.  These children are listed in reverse birth order, as far as I can tell.  I know nothing of Elizabeth.  Catherine is the eldest that I have, born about 1827 in New Brunswick; and Adam is  the youngest, born in Ontario 1839.  Probably Elizabeth was born in New Brunswick, although it's possible she was born in Scotland, if they had married there;  she may well have been married by the time of the 1851 census, hence invisible to me - this is the earliest census that I have.

For Agnes, it says:
"MURRAY, Agnes, b. ca 1812.  From Castleton, ROX. daughter of Charles M and Elizabeth ARMSTRONG.  To York Co., NB poss 1820, m. Thomas ARMSTRONG."  The source is the same as above.  Based on censuses, Agnes was born about 1799-1800, not 1812.  1812 is not likely, given the births of children.  However, perhaps she was a late baptism, and someone thought that represented her birth.

I note also the following persons of interest, who are obviously part of this clan:

"MURRAY, Adam, b. 1 Aug. 1808.  From Castleton, ROX, son of Charles M. and Elizabeth ARMSTRONG.  To York Co, NB, poss 1819;  moved to Westminster Twp., Middlesex Co., Ontario.  Farmer and schoolteacher.  married Jane, daughter of William BEATTIE and Janet HOGG."  Source same as above.

Also there are two other MURRAYs and two other ARMSTRONGs who immigrated from Castleton but there is no clear relationship.

William BEATTIE was Liddesdale, ROX, which I think is nearby.  Moved to York Co NB about 1820, moved to Westminster Twp, Middlesex Co. Ontario 1836.  He and Janet HOGG had 15 children, presumably in Canada, but the names might be familiar:  John, William, Catherine, Margaret, Jane, James, Isabella, Andrew, Edward, Janet, Nancy, David, Mary, Peter, George. Same source as above.

There is also an Isabella BEATTIE, b. about 1794- Castleton ROX, daughter of John B. who moved to York Co NB about 1820, moved to Middlesex Co., Ontario 1836, m.John OLIVER 8 Dec.1837, d.1883.  Same source as above. There are numerous OLIVERs listed, who seem to have come from the same area, and settled in various places in Canada.  John OLIVER was the son of James O. (OLIVER) and Jean ARMSTRONG - not sure if the "O." is a middle name or his last initial.

Janet HOGG, from Liddesdale ROX to York Co NB about 1820, later to Middlesex Co., Ontario.  wife of Willliam BEATTIE.

I don't know how much light this sheds, but perhaps something matches up with the data you have.  FYI, Queensbury parish is in York County, New Brunswick, Canada, and was being settled at the time stated.  It's clear that most of these folks immigrated first to New Brunswick, then they all migrated further inland to Westminster Township in Middlesex County in Ontario. 

I find it curious that the "letter" which is the source of all this, and is modern, states that James ARMSTRONG (son of Thomas and Agnes) was alive in 1877.  I wonder where that came from.  In fact he lived until 1893; he was a very public figure, and merited front page news on his death, so it would not be any secret, in 1979, that he lived to 1893!

There are two other MURRAYs who are listed on the same land grant with Thomas in New Brunswick in 1828 (at least I believe it is our Thomas).  They are John and Charles MURRAY.  I have been wondering if they are related too.  They are not listed in this volume 1, but Charles is obviously a name that could run in the family;  I wonder if they too are siblings of Agnes.

I would like to know when Thomas and Agnes were married, if it was in Scotland.   

There are 3 other volumes to this book, but they are only available at the Reference Library, so I must make a visit there.  I may not find any more about these families in them, however.

When I get hold of the other 3 volumes, I will let you know if there is anything relevant in them.

I am going to post another thread asking if anyone knows how to get hold of the letters which Mr. WHYTE collected.  I fear he may no longer be with us, as the book is 21 years old.  I would really like to know who wrote the letter about Thomas and Agnes, and how they knew what they knew.

ta!
loo
 

[bougie]

  Hi Loo
 I have noted down all the info you sent and i will have a look through
 what i've got and see if i can come up with anything for you.
   bougie

[loo]

Thanks very much.
KarenM has found Agnes MURRAY ARMSTRONG's death for me.  She died at 89 yrs in 1889, so this confirms that she was born about 1800, not 1812.
Just to clarify, I think that Agnes MURRAY's parents are meant to be Charles MURRAY (not Charles M. MURRAY) and Elizabeth ARMSTRONG.

I have just learned that Agnes's brother, Adam MURRAY was born 1 August 1808.  He is said to have been the youngest of 13 children.  Apart from Agnes, the only other sibling whose name I have so far is Elspeth, but I don't know where she fits in the birth order.  This information comes from the online History of the County of Middlesex, to which I was recently referred by another rootschatter.  It also says that the ARMSTRONG family had been farming in the Lowlands for a long time.

This book also seems to suggest that Thomas and Agnes married in Canada, not in Scotland.
It also suggests that Agnes MURRAY's parents also emigrated, so it's unlikely their tombstones would be found in Scotland.  I have, however, seen examples where a family tombstone in Scotland contained information on those who had emigrated and never
returned.

I don't want to overwhelm you with information.  On the other hand, don't want to leave out something that might be a clue.  apologies for the length of all this.

[elliojo]

Hi,
     I am a descendant and have considerable info on Charles & Elizabeth (Armstrong) Murray who immigrated to New Brunswick c1818-20.  Charles has been identified as a s/o Charles & Mary (Lithgow) Murray, born c1757, Rowanburnhill, Dumfriesshire, christened 8 Aug 1757.  He was married on 2 Sep 1787 at Canonbie, Dumfriesshire to Elizabeth Armstrong (b. c1767, Castleton) d/o John Armstrong & Helen Nixon (apparently both reported to be buried in Ettrick Cemetery, Newcastleton).  Elizabeth's sister, Jean (c1761) married James Oliver - The Murrays had Oliver cousins in Ontario.  Janet, another sister of Elizabeth, married William Ballentyne and also immigrated to Ontario, settling in Smih Falls.
     Charles & Elizabeth (Armstrong) Murray's children were:
Helen   m. John Elliot  - to Ontario
Mary     m. Richard Smith   - remained in NB
John      m.(1) Janet Nichol    (2) Margaret McColl    - remained in NB
Charles    - died unmarried in NB
Thomas   m.(1) Eliza Swan    (2) Barbara      - remained in NB
Jean       m. Robert Gibson    - to Ontario
David
Agnes     m. Thomas Armstrong - to Ontario - at least 6 children
Janet       m. John Ferris    - to Ontario
Elspeth    m. John Little  - remained in NB
Walter      m. Elizabeth Pearson   - remained in NB
William   - twin of Walter - died as an infant
Adam       m. Jean Beattie   - to Ontario

Hope this helps.

[loo]

Yes, this does help.  Obviously we are umpteenth cousins!

Since I last posted on this thread, I have found Darlene Campbell's extensive gedcom at rootsweb, which seems to cover vast numbers of people!  I have also gone to Middlesex and Lambeth counties (Ontario), and have done some local research on my branch of the family, which is the Agnes Murray - Thomas Armstrong  marriage towards the end of your list.  It seems that they had 8 children altogether, but several died young. 

However, I didn't have some of the information which you have, so I will PM you, and perhaps we can discuss this further.

Thanks!

[loo]

  Here's more
  Andrew Armstrong/Jane Morton, Andrew Armstrong/Jane Murray,
 John Armstrong/Helen Nixon, Adam Armstrong, Archibald Armstrong/
 Isabella Kyle, James Armstrong and brother John Armstrong,
 Walter Armstrong, Walter Armstrong/Janet Veitch, Archibald Armstrong,
 Charles Armstrong/Janet ? , James Armstrong/Isabella ? , James Armstrong/
 Margaret Little, James Armstrong,
 Andrew Armstrong/Isabella Aitchison, John Armstrong/Margaret Barclay,
 Andrew Armstrong/Sarah Bell, Thomasina Armstrong, Frank Armstrong ,
 James Armstrong/Janet Turnbull, Andrew Telfer Armstrong,
  These graves all date from late 1700's to very early 1900's but most of
 them are mid 1800's . I have more information on them all if anyone's
 interested.  bougie

I think we can now assume that John ARMSTRONG and Helen NIXON, whom you found, are likely to be my (and elliojo's) ancestors.  If you have any more info from that grave (or anywhere else for that matter!) on them, or can figure out any of their rellies from the info you have, I'm sure we would both appreciate it.  Do you have a photo of the tombstone?  If so, or if it could be gotten on a future visit, I would be thrilled to see it!  This might be the oldest identified grave in my genealogy so far, and the ONLY one, with tombstone, in Britain.  I never expected to find any in Scotland, so this is very exciting.
Many thanks!
Loo

[bougie]

    Hi Loo
 Here is that MI that you asked for
 IN MEMORY OF JOHN ARMSTRONG OF BURNMOOR, DIED 17TH FEBUARY 1789
 AGED 67 YEARS, ALSO HIS WIFE, HELEN NIXON, DIED 16TH APRIL 1826 AGED
 92 YEARS.
 Next to it another grave reads
 IN MEMORY OF ADAM ARMSTRONG, SON OF JOHN ARMSTRONG, BURNMOOR,
 WHO DIED AT NEWCASTLETON ON 9TH SEPTEMBER 1806 AGED 43 YEARS.
 I don't have a photo but i may be back at that cemy shortly and i will certainly take a pic for you.
 Sorry but i couldn't find any of the other people that you mentioned but i only wrote down male Armstrongs and their wifes the last time i visited. when i go back i will check the other names for you.
 bougie

[loo]

Thank you SO much, Bougie. 
It seems to me that this must be the right couple:  (1)  the dates would fit with the birth of their daughter Elizabeth in 1767, when her mother Helen NIXON would have been 33years.  (2) This is not completely reliable, but may be indicative - Helen's longevity @ 92yrs seems to run in the family - there are quite a few people descended from her who lived to the 88 to 92 age range that I know of through many generations, my father the most recent is 90 and living.  (3)  Tell me if I'm wrong, but Helen NIXON seems a less common name in the area than all the similar-sounding MURRAYs and ARMSTRONGs etc, and therefore unlikely that there would be other marriages with this exact combination of names in the same time frame.

Since you are in the area, Bougie, can you say whether elliojo's information (from older family histories) that they were buried in "Ettrick" would likely be the same place as the cemetery you found, or at least close by?  I'm extremely fuzzy on the geography.

Can you give me the location of the cemetery?  I will make a note of it in the hope that I will get there some day.
I do hope, however, that you are able to get a photo, as it could be quite some time before I am able to get there.  It's so nice to think there will be something to see when I do!!

Thank you so very very much.