Interpretation of Marriage Cert

[acorngen]

Chris,

Back to the BILSBURY line.  I have just checked the 1851 census myself and did you know there is another Isabella BILSBURY Listed of the same age and not living with Dewsbury and she is the daughter of a Mary also?  She was teh grandaughter of William HOLGATE and they were living Tottington High End and born in Edensfield Lancs. She was the daughter of Mary Bilsbury HOLGATE who was unmarried.  So now you have another conundrum because according to this entry Isabella wasn't listed as HOLGATE although I suspect she was.

Rob

[ChrisAllonby]

Hi,

I am afraid I just have more questions   I am guessing that you haven't found Isabella or Dewhurst in the 1861 census.  Do you have any idea about James Park born c1862 in Kendal, Westmoreland, whom is showing as son of John Park on the 1871 census?  This of course is prior to his marriage to Isabella, did he show as a Widower on the marriage cert, or could this possibly be another child of Isabella's?
Do you think that Mary Bilsberry on the 1851 census is Isabella's mother?  I found the birth of Sarah Ann born c1847 on freebmd, it may be worthwhile getting a copy of the birth cert to find the mothers maiden name.
I have been trying to track Isabella on the censuses to try and pin down her birth place, so far I have Skerton (1851), Lancaster (1871), and Ulverston (1881).  What was her second married name?
The last question is; what was John Park's occupation on the marriage cert, it might help to find him on the 1861 census.
Kath

Hi Kath,

I haven't found Dewhurst Bilsbury (presumed father of Isabella) in 1861, but in China Lane, Lancaster there are premises listed which look like a boarding house. The residents include John Parks (born Ulverston) and Isabella Parks (born Lancaster). I know this is 1861, three years before their possible marriage, but in the absence of any other candidates in 1861, and the notiorious errors that occur in such documents, I'm inclined to believe that these people are John and Isabella who married in 1864. They have children listed as visitors, including James if my memory serves me correctly, whose names and ages generally fit with later censuses. I think the combination of John Park(s) born in Ulverston and Isabella Park(s) born in Lancaster is probably unique, but you never know!

In 1871 John Park is absent from the family home and Isabella is Head, so it's unclear from this just who the father of the children might be. John Park's condition in 1864 is Bachelor and his occupation is Labourer. On the birth certificate of his son, Dewhurst, in 1870 he is listed as a Rag Gatherer. I think in 1861 he's listed as Traveller. It seems the most likely place for Isabella's birth is Skerton (which is a northern part of Lancaster). In 1888 Isabella Park married John Harmon, and from then on I've been able to identify her in census records to 1901 and in cemetery records from Ulverston.

I haven't yet got down to looking in detail at the Bilsbury family, but Rob has just thrown another spanner in the works - see subsequent post - which I'll now have to look at. I had considered that Mary Bilsburrey (various spelling of this name) was Isabella's mother. If I can positively identify Isabella's birth then I'll get the certificate.

Many thanks for looking into this. It's always a great help to have different sets of eyes looking over the evidence - or lack of it!

Regards,
Chris.

[ChrisAllonby]

Hi Rob,

Looks like your Burns line is totally separate to mine. However, I too have a link to the Hunslet. Patrick Burns' wife, Mary Carroll had some relatives who lived at Armley, Hill Top to be precise, but I've not yet managed to find out much about them, including how exactly they are related to me. Presumably you have obtained all possible information from Margarette? I understand the name BURNS originated in Scotland rather than Ireland. The area of Cumberland to which you refer is not far from the Scottish border. Have you been able to trace that Burns line to Scotland at all? Of course a problem with BURNS is that it's relatively common.

I see what you mean about another Isabella Bilsbury. It certainly requires further investigation. I think Isabella was a common name at the time, so the extended Bilsbury family would be expected to have more than one instance of the name. I suppose the 1851 records showing Isabella, daughter of Dewhurst are the most promising, but nothing should be ruled out.

Many thanks for looking at this. As noted earlier, it's always a great help to have an alternative view on these problem areas.

Regards,
Chris.

[katherinem]

Hi Chris,

There is a death registration for a Dewhurst Bilsbury in the qtr Apr-Jun 1852, district of Lancaster, 8c, 385.  Also on freebmd there is a marriage entry for Mary Bilsberry in the qtr Dec 1853, but there are no other entries for that page no.  Having looked up the marriages for Lancaster for that qtr, it looks like they are in the middle of transcribing them and have done the surnames beginning with A and B.
I tried finding Sarah Ann in 1861, hoping that she was still living with her mother, even though she is of the age to be working as a servant somewhere, but as yet to no avail. 

Kath

[ChrisAllonby]

Kath,

Thanks for that. I hadn't spotted the death registration for Dewhurst Bilsbury. I think I'll look through the images on FreeBMD to see if there's a Miller marriage to match to index for Mary Bilsberry.

Regards,
Chris.

[ChrisAllonby]

No,

I looked a the images but there's no Miller listed against 8c385 in Dec 1853. There's a John Miller from Lancaster but the index is indistinct. However, it doesn't look as though it could be 8c 385. I might just have to wait until the transcribing of the Dec 1853 marriages is complete. It's only about 10% at the moment. Maybe I should volunteer. 

[katherinem]

Hi Chris,

Hi Rob,

The mystery is why she was known as Miller and yet was a spinster in 1864. Interestingly, one of the children listed as living with Isabella in 1871 was named as Margaret Ann Miller when she got married.

Possibly I'll never know the full story, but the above is looking more reasonable. If only I could find some link to Miller. But there's another twist to it!!

On the marriage cert' from 1888 the witnesses are Margaret Ann and Francis Huddleston. Ah! another Margaret Ann - what's going on here. On checking FreeBMD there's a marriage between Margaret Ann Miller and Francis Huddleston. But I've already sorted out Margaret Ann Miller - in some detail - she married someone called Athersmith. Are there two Margaret Ann Millers, one the duaghter of Isabella, and another the witness at her wedding in 1888? I haven't been able to resolve it. However, I did get the marraige cert' for Huddleston. Father's name of the bride: Jacob Miller. I can't find any other reference to a Jacob Miller - not one that fits, anyway. Margaret Ann Huddleston is "living" in Lancaster Castle Prison in 1891. They are obviously a bad lot!

Chris.

There is a death reg for James Athersmith (right age) in 1882, in Oct-Dec 1883 there is a marriage reg for Leonard Ireland and Margaret Ann Athersmith.  On the 1891 census the following in Ulverston:

Leonard Ireland, Head, M, Iron Miner, Ulverston
Margaret A   "    , Wife, M, Westmoreland Kendal
Isabella Athersmith, Step Dau, 11, Scholar, Ulverston
Thomas Ireland, Son,1, Ulverston

So I am pretty sure that the witnesses at the 1888 wedding were not Isabella's daughter, as the name is the same, I wonder if it was her sister, I would say definitely a relative.  You say you have the marriage cert for Margaret Ann Miller to Francis Huddlestone, can I ask what age she is?  Also the entry in 1891 when Margaret Huddlestone is in Lancaster prision, I don't seem to be able to find it (I was trying to get the year of birth from that.

Interestingly on the 1891 census above, this time Margaret Ann's birthplace is Kendal!

I saw that entry for John Miller and I did wonder, if only the page no was the same

Regards, Kath

[ChrisAllonby]

Hi Kath,

On the Huddleston marriage certificate Margaret's age is 26 and she is a spinster. The marriage took place on 17th Oct 1887. She is a Hawker, and lives in the same area of Ulverston as all the other Parks and Athersmiths that I've looked at. She shows up on the 1891 census as margaret A Huddleston (no e on the end) born about 1861 and Prisoner in Lancaster. The year of birth matches exactly the marriage cert. I'd found all the stuff about Athersmith and Ireland, which cuased me to think again when I got the marriage certificate with M A Huddleston as the witness. But I think you are right, they are two different people - in fact, they must be. The Athersmith/Ireland line fits very well, to the extent that in 1891 Isabella Harmon is living with, amongst others, a grandchild by the name of Athersmith.

I looked again at the image on FreeBMD, and I noticed the marriage of Mary Bilsberry is in fact listed as 8e 731. It's just possible that the reference to John Miller is the same, but the writing is so indistinct as to be nearly unreadable. What do you think?

Thanks,
Chris.

[Valda]

Marriages Sep 1841

Bilsbarrow  Dewhurst     Liverpool  20 177  

to one of thes women

DOUGHERTY  Mary     Liverpool  20 177   (most likely candidate)
GRAYSON  Mary Ann     Liverpool  20 177  
PEARSON  Elizabeth     Liverpool  20 177
Byrne  Ellen     Liverpool  20 177  

From the BVRI

BELSBURY, Isabella   Christening
Birth Date:   2 Dec 1838   
Christening Date:   2 Dec 1838   
Recorded in:   St Mary Lancaster, Lancashire
Father:   Dowas BELSBURY
Mother:   Violett

How sure are you that the 1864 marriage must be correct?

Regards

Valda