Author Topic: BROWNs of OCHILTREE: Definite Family Connections-2 Brothers Marry 2 Sisters.  (Read 6934 times)

Offline Jeanette H

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Hello To All RootsChat Members,

I have two 'BROWN' Families, one is directly linked to us.

However the similarities between the two families, has me  believing that they are related, still yet to make the connection, maybe someone in cyberspace may also have a link, or perhaps may be able to assist.

The similarities as I see it are as follows:
*    In the childrens names - Robert / Margaret /
           James & Mary.
*    With the maiden name of 'CAMPBELL'.

*    Occupations as Hook Makers.

*    Birthplaces in Wigtownshire / Ochiltree.


[1st Family]
James BROWN & Margaret (nee CAMPBELL)
(Issue - births)
Robert Campbell (1826)  /  William (1828)  / 
Catherine (1831)  /  James Campbell (1833)  /
David (1835)  /  Margaret (1837)  /
Marianne(Mary Ann) (1839)  /  Janet Hannah (1843)  /


2nd Family - ages as of 1851 Census]
Andrew BROWN  (41yrs) & Catherine (nee CAMPBELL) (41yrs)
(Issue)
Robert (15yrs)  /  Mary (13yrs)  /  James (10yrs)  /
Andrew (8yrs)  /  Alexander (5yrs)  /  Margaret (2yrs)  /
Margaret CAMPBELL (Mother-In-Law) (78yrs)



In 1837 - James BROWN (Snr) was listed as a 'Shearing Hook Manufacturer' (in the Ochiltree Ayrshire Directory- 1837, by Pigot and Co.

1841 - James BROWN & family were residing in Main Street Ochiltree.

1851 - Both Families were residing in Main Street, Ochiltree, Ayrshire.

1851 Census - James BROWN (Snr), was listed as being born in Stranraer, Wigtownshire.  His occupation was as a Blacksmith (Master Employing 6 Men).

1851 - Andrew BROWN (Snr), was listed as being born in Leswalt, Wigtownshire.  His occupation was as a Hook Maker.  While his wife Catherine was listed as being born at Portpatrick, Wigtownshire.

1851 - (Listed on the Dalrymple Census) The [4] Sons of James BROWN (William, Robert, James & David), and a future Son-In-Law (James REID), also followed in the same Occupation.

1861 - James & Margaret BROWN (Snr), appeared on the Kirkmichael Census, at Cassillis Mill.  James (57yrs), birthplace Stranraer, Wigtownshire.  Margaret (55yrs) birthplace Portpatrick, Wigtownshire. This time James's Occupation was listed as a Hook or Scythe Manufacturer - employing 3 men.

1871 - as yet, have not seen this census.

1881 - James (Snr) (75yrs) is still residing at Cassillis Mill, from Stranraer, occupation as an edge tool maker.


Still looking for the Birth / Death / Marriage Certificates, for James & Margaret BROWN (nee CAMPBELL).  This is our
direct family connection.

Through family documentation I somehow get the feeling that James and Margaret BROWN (nee CAMPBELL) or their Parents, Grandparents, etc. perhaps originally came from Ayrshire, prior to their Wigtownshire connections. This we still have to prove.

Other Surnames that we know of that are linked to this family are:
BAIRD, REID, HUTCHISON, GUTHRIE, WYL(L)IE, BURNS (BURNESS).

Would love to hear from anyone who feels they may have a connection, or perhaps may be able to assist in some way.

Jeanette H.
   
One-Half Of 'Dancing-Duo' Waltzing Through Time & Space. 
Researching To Find Lots Of Things Not To Do.

Research Names & Areas:
********************
Ayrshire, Sct.: BROWN / BAIRD / BURNS(BURNESS) / CAMPBELL / COWAN / HUTCHISON / REID / WYL(L)IE
Roxburghshire, Sct.: TURNBULL / VEITCH /  ELLIOT / MURRAY
Aberdeenshire, Sct.: WATT / MITCHELL
England: TOPPING / MEDLEY
Ireland: MORROW
Australia: BROWN / BAIRD / TURNBULL / WATT / TOPPING / MORROW / MEDLEY / TACKI
Germany: ECKHARDT / HUBNER / TACKI

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Offline Billie Mendav

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Re: BROWNs of OCHILTREE: Similarity of 2-Families with Possible Connections.
« Reply #1 on: Friday 23 June 06 13:17 BST (UK) »
Just want to make the comment that there were an AWFUL lot of Campbells in Ayr.     I wonder if this web site might help you.

http://fp.ayrshireroots.plus.com/Genealogy/Surnames/Campbell/C

It lists a lot of Campbell marriages for those dates.    Hope it's still there.

Keep in touch,

Billie

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Offline Jeanette H

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Re: BROWNs of OCHILTREE: Similarity of 2-Families with Possible Connections.
« Reply #2 on: Friday 23 June 06 14:42 BST (UK) »
Hello Billie,

I tried to access the URL (in relation to Ayrshireroots), however I could not get access by clicking on it.

So I typed in http://fp.ayrshireroots.plus.com/Genealogy/database/htm

I then was able to enter the site, then I scrolled down to near  the end of the page, where it said 'SURNAME DATABASE' (Now Requires Free Registration).

Is this Database where we will find the Campbell marriages?

I have been to this site in the past, but as time passes you find so many different sites, you Bookmark them, then after a while you tend to forget about them, that is if you do not use them regularly.

I sent you a Personal Message (PM), in answer to your earlier question on the other topic page.  Hope you received it, let me know if you do not.

Thanking You,
Jeanette H.
One-Half Of 'Dancing-Duo' Waltzing Through Time & Space. 
Researching To Find Lots Of Things Not To Do.

Research Names & Areas:
********************
Ayrshire, Sct.: BROWN / BAIRD / BURNS(BURNESS) / CAMPBELL / COWAN / HUTCHISON / REID / WYL(L)IE
Roxburghshire, Sct.: TURNBULL / VEITCH /  ELLIOT / MURRAY
Aberdeenshire, Sct.: WATT / MITCHELL
England: TOPPING / MEDLEY
Ireland: MORROW
Australia: BROWN / BAIRD / TURNBULL / WATT / TOPPING / MORROW / MEDLEY / TACKI
Germany: ECKHARDT / HUBNER / TACKI

Offline runner

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Re: BROWNs of OCHILTREE: Similarity of 2-Families with Possible Connections.
« Reply #3 on: Friday 23 June 06 23:57 BST (UK) »
Hi Jeanette

I know its not directly relevant to your search but keep in mind that a Hook  is actually a sickle  and as a scythe maker. they would make bill-hooks too. The long handled branch loppers and bramble sweeps.

So blacksmith ties in quite well.

This is when you wish you had ancestors with uncommon names.

Rusell
1941-2016
Oman in Caithness, Reside in Renfrewshire,
Roan or Rowan Kirkcudbrightshire/Ayrshire
Watsons in Kilrenny and Mortons in Edinburgh.

Offline Jeanette H

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Re: BROWNs of OCHILTREE: Similarity of 2-Families with Possible Connections.
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 24 June 06 06:11 BST (UK) »
Hello Rusell,

Thank you for your reply and input, I do appreciate it.
I was aware that these occupations are all inter-related.

I was outlining how one person's occupation, was given different titles, over the course of his life.

Then comparing James BROWN (Snr) & Andrew BROWN (Snr), and their occupations, with the definite possibility that they were carrying it on down through the family.

It may also be very relevant to tracking down their parentage, as this same occupation may well have been their fathers. 


PLEASE NOTE:   
A slight modification has recently been included in the ORIGINAL TOPIC.


Thanking You,
Jeanette H.
One-Half Of 'Dancing-Duo' Waltzing Through Time & Space. 
Researching To Find Lots Of Things Not To Do.

Research Names & Areas:
********************
Ayrshire, Sct.: BROWN / BAIRD / BURNS(BURNESS) / CAMPBELL / COWAN / HUTCHISON / REID / WYL(L)IE
Roxburghshire, Sct.: TURNBULL / VEITCH /  ELLIOT / MURRAY
Aberdeenshire, Sct.: WATT / MITCHELL
England: TOPPING / MEDLEY
Ireland: MORROW
Australia: BROWN / BAIRD / TURNBULL / WATT / TOPPING / MORROW / MEDLEY / TACKI
Germany: ECKHARDT / HUBNER / TACKI

Offline MonicaL

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Re: BROWNs of OCHILTREE: Similarity of 2-Families with Possible Connections.
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 24 June 06 21:25 BST (UK) »
Hi Jeanette

In case you don't have this, this is Andrew Brown and family in 1841:

BROWN       Andrew       M       30       Blacksmith        Outside Census County (1841)            
        BROWN       Kathrine       F       30               Outside Census County (1841)            
        BROWN       Robert       M       5               Ayrshire            
        BROWN       Mary       F       3               Ayrshire            
        BROWN       James       M       1               Ayrshire

Address:Ochiltree Village, Ochiltree-Ayrshire

Regards.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: BROWNs of OCHILTREE: Similarity of 2-Families with Possible Connections.
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 24 June 06 22:46 BST (UK) »
Jeanette

Two brothers married two sisters!

I'll do this in two different posts to try to keep it simple! The records for these families are on IGI, luckily they are actual extracts from the OPRs rather than submitted entries.

Brown Family:
I know James stated in Censuses that he was born in Stranraer but he would appear to have been born in Leswalt like his brother Andrew.

From IGI, using the batch code for Leswalt, these are the births I can find for parents Robert BROWN and Mary MACKIE:

JAMES BROUN  Christening:  11 SEP 1798   Leswalt, Wigtown, Scotland
Parents: Father: ROBERT BROUN         Mother:  MARY KIE

ROBERT BROUN  Christening:  06 JUN 1801  Leswalt, Wigtown, Scotland
Parents: Father:  ROBERT BROUN      Mother:  MARY KIE

WILLIAM BROWN     Christening:  27 MAR 1805      Leswalt, Wigtown, Scotland
Parents: Father: ROBERT BROWN         Mother: MARY MACKIE

JOHN BROWN  Christening:  27 MAR 1805  Leswalt, Wigtown, Scotland
Parents: Father: ROBERT BROWN      Mother:  MARY MACKIE

ANDREW BROWN     Christening:  25 DEC 1809      Leswalt, Wigtown, Scotland
Parents: Father:  ROBERT BROWN      Mother:  MACKIE

Batch Number: c118912

Their parents' marriage also shows on IGI, along with Andrew's marriage to Catherine Campbell (unfortunately James's doesn't as far as I can see). It would appear that at some point following the births of their children, Robert and Mary moved to Ochiltree, Ayr. Andrew's marriage shows there:

ROBERT BROUN     Marriages: Spouse:     MARY MCKIE         
Marriage:  26 NOV 1795  Leswalt, Wigtown, Scotland

ANDREW BROWN     Marriages: Spouse: CATHARINE CAMPBELL    
Marriage:  29 DEC 1833  Ochiltree, Ayr, Scotland

I've viewed James Brown's (and Andrew's) death cert. and it confirms these parents.



Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: BROWNs of OCHILTREE: Similarity of 2-Families with Possible Connections.
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 24 June 06 22:53 BST (UK) »
....now for the Campbells!

Similar story perhaps?

Again from IGI, all actual extracts from OPRs:

Parents: Father: ROBERT CAMPBELL Mother:  MARGARET KENNEDY
Batch number: C118962

Children are showing as all born in Portpatrick, Wigtown:

1. ALEXANDER CAMPBELL  Christening: 09 FEB 1806 Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland
2. JAMES CAMPBELL Christening: 12 FEB 1798 Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland
3. SARAH CAMPBELL Christening: 30 MAR 1794 Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland
4. QUINTEN CAMPBELL Christening: 09 OCT 1814 Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland
5. ROBERT CAMPBELL Christening: 16 NOV 1795 Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland
6. JOHN CAMPBELL Christening: 21 MAR 1812 Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland
7. ANN CAMPBELL Christening: 23 JAN 1792 Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland
8. CATHERINE CAMPBELL Christening: 01 FEB 1809 Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland
9. JANET CAMPBELL Christening: 01 MAR 1803 Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland
10. MARGARET CAMPBELL Christening: 12 AUG 1800 Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland
11. MARY CAMPBELL Christening: 25 MAY 1818 Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland

Now, your Margaret (No.10), shows with a mother Ann Kennedy on the OPRs extract. This is either an error at the point of extraction of the record from the OPR or it was entered incorrectly into the OPR.

This is the parents' marriage on IGI:

ROBERT CAMPBELL  Marriages: Spouse: MARGARET KENNADY     
Marriage:  25 MAR 1791   Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland

I have viewed Margaret's death cert and it confirms these parents.

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: BROWNs of OCHILTREE: Similarity of 2-Families with Possible Connections.
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 25 June 06 00:11 BST (UK) »
....and on to the Kennedys!

I think this may be Margaret Campbell nee Kennedy in the 1841 Census:

LEACH       Jane       F       55       Husband Absent        Wigtownshire            
        LEACH       Alexander       M       13       Son        Wigtownshire            
        LEACH       Margaret       F       11       Daughter        Wigtownshire            
        LEACH       Robert       M       9       Son        Wigtownshire            
        LEACH       Andrew       M       3       Son        Wigtownshire            
        WALLACE       Margaret       F       55       Sewer        Wigtownshire            
        CAMPBELL       Margaret       F       66       Lone Woman        Wigtownshire    

Address: Barracks Street, Portpatrick-Wigtownshire.


I believe Margaret Kennedy died back in Portpatrick in 1857. From the details relating to her parents, I think you may have your link to Ayrshire on at least one of the lines. Her parents' marriage I think on IGI:

ALEXANDER KENNEDY     Marriages: Spouse:  ANN GILESPY     
Marriage:  20 NOV 1761   Barr By Girvan, Ayr, Scotland

And again on IGI (I couldn't find any births in Barr):

1. JANET KENNEDY  Christening: 27 JAN 1776 Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland
2. JANNET KENNEDY Christening: 03 AUG 1782 Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland

And using the batch code for Portpatrick C118962

3. AGNESS KENEDY  Christening:  28 JUN 1762   Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland
Parents: Father:  ALEXANDER KENEDY  Mother: ANNAS GILESPY
4. JOHN KENNEDY  Christening:  DEC 1763  Portpatrick, Wigtown, Scotland
Parents: Father: ALEXANDER KENNEDY     Mother: ANN


Must go to bed now!

Regards.

Monica

   
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk