sangster???

[hazelnuts01]

I have been searching for some time for my grandfather's roots (birth!!!)  He was James Wilson and died in 1955 aged 82 - apart from his children's names I know no more about him.

His children were:-
Helen Reid Jones  Wilson- illigitmate - Helen and Jones after her mother
John Wilson - called after his father's father???
Robert Jones Wilson - called after his mother's father 
Alfred Andrew Sangster Wilson - cannot figure this one out.
Isabella Waugh Jones Wilson - called after her mother's grandmother
Elizabeth Wilson - don't know who she was called after.

Most names of the children I can understand how they got their names - except one - Alfred Andrew Sangster Wilson -

Found a John Wilson b. 1826 who had   James Wilson and Margaret Sangster as parents - but cannot find a connection

Can anyone help me here?

[MonicaL]

Hi Hazelnuts

Bit of a puzzle here! James's marriage cert states parents James Wilson and Margaret Gillon. His death cert. states John Wilson and Margaret Gillon.

Can't as yet see any marriage for a couple (Wilson/Gill*n) with either of these names (James/John). Also, no children show for them on IGI with these names. I've tried searching for a death of a Margaret Wilson, other name Gill*n, and also nothing.

Have you managed to find James, Helen and young family in the 1901 Census. This would confirm whether his place of birth was Scotland at least.

Regards.

Monica

[MonicaL]

One possibility might be that James's birth might have been illegitimate. I just found this on IGI, this birth year fits his age at the time of his marrige:

JAMES GILLON  Birth:  30 DEC 1871   Row, Dunbarton, Scotland
      
Parents: Mother: MARGARET GILLON

Monica

[hazelnuts01]

Hi there
Found the James Gillon - with Margaret Gillon as mother but that child died when he was one year old, unfortunately - I thought I had found him too but no luck

[hazelnuts01]

1901 census for Livingstone found the family - father states his birthplace as Renfrewshire Paisley but have searched for two years and no luck.

There just is no James Wilson with parents of these names born there.

So I thought the clue MUST be in his children's names and started searching that way

[kenjo]

Hi,
There is a Marg* Hen* Wilson or Gillan died 1947 aged 94yrs, in Aberdeen.
regards,
Jo

[MonicaL]

I did look at this entry. She was Margaret Henderson Gillan, married to James Gillan, Minister of Church of Scotland. Parents William Wilson and Mary Russell. This entry, of all the Gill*n death entries, was the closest but still I couldn't connect it to the info we have.

At a push, Margaret could have been a Wilson who married a Wilson who died and then she married a Gillan. But, James's MC and DC show Margaret nee Gillon.

Monica

[MonicaL]

I'm probably just following in your footsteps here Hazelnuts!

I've gone through all the batch codes for 1855-75 on IGI for Renfrewshire using just the mother's surname of Gillon (and spelling variants) and nothing. I did wonder if there was a birth of a child (boy) with mother Margaret Gillon in Renfrewshire with a name other than James (sometimes people went by names other than those given at birth).

A few questions:

1.What was the order of birth of their children?
2. Have you managed to see James's second marriage cert. following the death of Helen in 1924. I can't see it on SP and wonder whether it was after 1930?
3. I wonder who the Alexander Wilson is that shows as a witness to James's wedding in 1894 along with a Sarah XX (sp?)
4. What was James's age in the 1901 census?

This is a difficult puzzle to crack.

1. I cannot see young James in the 1881 census with a Paisley birth place. I've also had a look at entries for West Lothian and again nothing there where the mother has a maiden name of Gillon (I've crossed checked with IGI to check what the mother's maiden name was where a Margaret and John/James parents showed). The closest I can see is one where the Margaret's m/name is Sharp.
2. IGI is pretty accurate for births in the period of 1855-74 and can't see any record there.

I don't have a good feel for the geography of where we think James lived. This is what I can make out:

1. His marriage cert in 1894 was in Bathgate West Lothian and his usual residence is shown as Pumpherston Mid-Calder. Parents showing as James W., a dyer, and Margaret Gillon, not showing as deceased (but who knows, this can sometimes be inaccurate)
2. He states in 1901 census in Livingston, West Lothian that he was born in Paisley
3. Helen's death was in Muiravonside Stirling in 1924
4. James's death was in Slamannan Stirling in 1955. Parents now showing as John Wilson, a wool warehouse packer, and Margaret Gillon, both deceased.

Is there any reason why your post is in the Aberdeen board that I'm not seeing?

Regards.

Monica

[hazelnuts01]

Hallo Monica

I do appreciate your time and a chance to discuss this problem - I have been at it a long time now - the answers to your questions are as follows:-(order of children)

Helen Reid Wilson    born Moonzie Fife     21.2.1893    (illigitimate)
John Wilson              born Pumpherston   11.1.1895    (no middle names)
Robert Jones Wilson born Pumpherston   16.5.1896
Alfred Andrew Sangster Wilson  born Bathgate 19.10.1897  (died aged 1 year 25.10.1898)
Isabella Waugh Jones Wilson     born Bathgate 11.10.1899
Elizabeth Wilson       born  1907   (died  6.10.1933 aged 26years)

I don't have his second marriage certificate because I don't know the date of marriage but I remember his wife - she was Isabella Eadie Campbell Drummond - she married a David Bennet in 1925 when she was 26 (He died in 1951)  so I guess she married James W about this time (or she was divorced and married him earlier)

I cannot find who the Alexander Wilson was -  I have looked - and cannot find a connection.  Sarah Swann was the other signature (I looked for her and found one aged 17)

His age in the 1901 census is 29 I think - I think I found him in the Bathgate census for 1891  it says:-

James Wilson Boarder Unmarried 19 Labourer in Mine (Employed)  Birthplace Renfrewshire Paisley
address No. 5 Starlaw Row Bathgate with a family called Warrington.

Helen died in Wester Hillhead Farm , Blackston Avonbridge 1925 and was buried in Bathgate with Alfred, Elizabeth and John  (James was then a poultry farmer!!!)
James died 1955 at Bridgend Cottage Avonbridge  and was buried in Muiravonside.The two districts are separated only by the river although the cemeteries are quite a distance apart.

My question for Aberdeenshire was because of the child Alfred Andrew Sangster Wilson - I searched for the Sangster's name and most of them seem to come from the Aberdeenshire area - long shot I suppose you could say.

I found a birth of a John Wilson - parents James Wilson/Margaret Sangster at Nigg?? Kincardine 1826
but still cannot connect this with the one I am looking for.  Like you I am beginning to think the birthplace and/or parents names could be in question.

Hope this answers all your questions - many many thanks for your help in this -

regards

hazelnuts01