SPOONER marriages, births, census ...

[Ruskie]

Hello Rootschatters,

I'm hoping someone may be able to assist. Yesterday I received the death certificate of Elizabeth Humphreys nee Spooner (died Australia). Her father is Ralph Spooner, and her mother is Jane Bell. I believe this is my family in the 1861 census:

Piece: RG9/3755 Place: Hetton-le-Hole-Co. Durham Enumeration District: 2E
Civil Parish: Hetton Le Hole Ecclesiastical Parish: Hetton Le Hole
Folio: 41 Page: 15 Schedule: 45
Address: 47 Caroline St

SPOONER   Ralph   Head   M   M   47   Coal Miner  Northumberland - Willington       
SPOONER   Mary   Wife   M   F   44      Northumberland - Percy Main       
SPOONER   Sarah   Dau   U   F   20      Co. Durham - Dalton       
SPOONER   Robert   Son   U   M   18   Coal Miner    Co. Durham - Dalton       
SPOONER   Ralph   Son   U   M   11   Coal Miner    Co. Durham - Thrislington(Originally: Co. Durham - Thrisleton)       
SPOONER   Susannah   Dau   U   F   9       Co. Durham - Thrislington(Originally: Co. Durham - Thrisleton)       
SPOONER   Alice Ann   Dau   U   F   5       Co. Durham - Whitworth       
SPOONER   Elzabeth   Dau   U   F   2       Co. Durham - Hetton Le Hole

Elizabeth's mother's name should therefore be Mary (I believe her maiden name may have been Mary Ann Condrace - married to Ralph in 1843, Easington Vol 24 p 97 - yet to be confirmed).

Is anyone able to find a marriage between Ralph Spooner and Jane Bell? Or maybe this is incorrect information supplied at the time of Elizabeth's death?

Maybe the above family isn't mine?

From her marriage certifcate I estimated Elizabeth's birth as 1859/60. Her age at death gives her birth date as 1863 (I suspect this is incorrect as on the death cert other dates/ages are also slightly incorrect).

If anyone can find Elizabeth's birth, that would be wonderful. Her middle name on her death cert and her son's death cert is given as Thann. One of Elizabeth's grandaughters was given the name Elizabeth Thann. Initially I thought it should have been Ann rather than Thann, but as it has been given on three seperate documents, maybe it is Thann. I wonder where that name came from?

Any lookups, thoughts, suggestions etc gratefully received. Thank you.

[AMBLY]

Hi

There is another Ralph SPOONER with a wife named Jane, and a daughter named Elizabeth age 10......

1871: Shotton  Colliery, Durham
RD : Easington  ED,: 7
REF: Class: RG10; Piece: 4972; Folio: 60; Page: 40
Address: Railway Row
Head: Ralph SPOONER 46, Coal Miner, b North Sheilds, Northumerland
Wife: Jane SPOONER 41, Chester le STreet, Durham,
Son: M(ark?) A SPOONER 17, Coal Miner, b Shadforth Durham
Dau: Ann J SPOONER 13 Scholar, b Easington Durham
Dau: Elizabeth A SPOONER 10, Scholar b Easington Durham
Dau: Ralphina  SPOONER 4 b Easington Durham
Boarder?: Robert (GIM?)BLETON (EMBLETON?) 25, unm, Coal Miner, b Swalwell Durham

This family is distinct from the 1861 family you posted up, they too are still in Durham in 1871 in Hetton le Hole.

Cheers
AMBLY

[Ruskie]

Gee, that was quick!

Thanks so much Ambly - That family certainly look promising.

And that also solves the Jane Bell problem. I do know that there were many Spooners in Durham!

I note that Elizabeth's middle name starts with an A for Ann rather than a T for Thann. I did notice a Ralphina while trawling around yesterday - a name that kindof stood out!

Thanks again! You've been a great help.

[AMBLY]

Hi again 

I looked on FREEBMD and in 1843 was a Ralph SPOONER marrying in Easington - and one of the brides was a Jane GUY.......a possibility, I wonder if the mother's  maiiden name was incorrectly stated on the death?

Another thing, do you know when your Elizabeth went to Australia? If we can find one or the other of the Durham Elizabeth's still in UK after that date, it would eliminate them maybe - but as you say, again - there were a lot of SPOONER's ! 

THANN may well be THANE or THAIN and the maiden name of either Ralph's mother or his wife's mother?

Cheers
AMBLY

[Ruskie]

Hi Ambly,

Thanks for your help. I just found this marriage:

Apr/May/Jun 1847
Ralph Spooner Durham XXIV 116
Jane Bell on same page!!!!!

I just searched from birth date of first child (1854) on the census, and went backwards. I wouldn't be surprised if they had other children before Mark aged 17 - possibly working away from home.

Of course if there is another Ralph marrying another Jane, the 71 census family may not be the right ones. Can you see any Elizabeths with a T middle name?

Good idea about eliminating the Elizabeths - mine came to Australia in 1886. I have her in the 81 census in Hope Street Tudhoe, Durham. She is housekeeper with the Humphrey's family and her baby daughter Jane Hannah Spooner is with her. She gives her age then as 21.

Thanks a lot for your help. You're very kind.

[Ruskie]

Elizabeth's death certificate gives her place of birth as Shotton, Durham. If this is true, it may help.
I've been searching Ancestry and the only likely Elizabeth birth in the right place at the right time is this one: Elizabeth Ann Spooner, J/A/S 1861, Easington, 10a 310. I searched several years around this date.

[AMBLY]

Hi 
Oh. I'm glad your Elizabeth didn't go to Australia until 1886! I saw her in Tudhoe 1881 and had her pegged as the daughter of Ralph & Jane (they of 1871 & 1861). Which would have been shot to bits if yours was already in Oz! And since your Elizabeth place of birth is given as Shotton at her death, I'm becoming more sure this is the right family:-

1851 -  Shadforth Durham
RD :Durham Sub-RD:St Nicholas  ED:11b
REF: Class: HO107; Piece: 2391; Folio: 515; Page: 32
Address: Villiage of Ludworth
Head; Ralph SPOONER 26, Coal Miner , b Percy Main Northumberland
Wife: Jane SPOONER 22, b Lumley, Durham
Son: Mark Andrew SPOONER 5mth, b Shadworth, Durham
Lodger:s: John CHAPMAN 22, Coal Miner, b North Shields Northumberland
Lodgers Wife: Alles CHAPMAN 18, b Sherburn? Durham

1861 -  Shotton Colliery, Durham
Ecclesiastical parish:Easington
RD :Easington  Sub-RD:Easington ED:3
REF: Class: RG9; Piece: 3747; Folio: 35; Page: 28
Address; 2nd High Row
Head: Ralph SPOONER 36, Coal Miner, b Percy Main Northumberland
Wife: Jane SPOONER 31, b Lumley Durham
Son: Mark SPOONER 7, Scholar, b Shadforth Durham
Dau: Ralfan SPOONER 4, b Shotton Colliery
Dau: Hannah SPOONER 2, b Shotton Colliery


No Elizabeth there, so she must have been born after the Census taken - which would fit tidly with the birth reg you've found - right RD district too!
And I can't find a death for Hannah - but it is interesting since your Elizabeth named her own daughter Jane Hannah...
I did look on the Census to see if they were living with or next to any BELLS, just in case!!

The trying to find them in 1881:
I can't find Ralph or Jane - who by now should be 57 and 54 yrs old
Dau: Elizabeth - If  your Elizabeth is their Elizabeth  - and I suspect she is , she's in Tudhoe
Son Mark - has marreid a Margaret and is in Shotton, Durham with wife and 1 yr old dau Elizabeth.

Then I find deaths   
Ralphina SPOONER died age 5 in 1872
Ann J SPOONER died age 17 in 1876
Mark SPOONER died age 32 in 1886

How very sad! This means by end of 1886, only 1 child daughter Elizabeth is known to be still living, and if she is your Elizabeth has gone to Australia.
Is there any indication at all that her parents amy have gone with her? I can't find a death though I know freebmd is incomplete!

The very best way to confirm if this Ralph & Jane is your couple, and Jane's maiden name is BELL  - of course is to obtain the birth cert of the beautifully unique Ralphina!

I hope this helps! It does look promising for you!

Cheers
AMBLY

[Ruskie]

You are so wonderful Ambly. You've given me much more information than I hoped for.

My Elizabeth married on 27 August 1881 - on her marriage certificate her father Ralph is deceased!

I've been doing a bit of googling for Shotton/Easington etc. What a god forsaken place that must have been to live in - probably housing supplied by the colliery judging by the address. No wonder they died so young. I have found a few Spooner colliery accidental deaths, but no idea who they are. I imagine a lot of these Durham Spooners are related somehow.

I attempted to chase up Ralphina - such an early death - no wonder I could not find her.

Elizabeth lived until 1941, and died aged 78 of bronchopneumonia. She managed to produce 11 children with two husbands. According to the death cert 4 females with the first husband died. I only have the name of one of these deaths - Georgina in 1886. She must have died soon after arrival in Australia.

Poor Elizabeth - at first I thought she was a bit of a floosy, but I do feel sorry for her now. Her first husband was Leigh Humphreys who she was housekeeper for in the 1881 census. Her death cert says that he is the father of her child Jane Hannah. Elizabeth was his third wife. He died in Australia in 1889. I believe she then married his son Henry William, who is with them in the 81 census (no marriage cert yet).

Thank you once again so much for the invaluable information. Much appreciated. I feel the need to purchase some certificates ....

PS. I will check the passenger lists for Jane, Elizabeth's mother, next week when I go to the archives.

[_insomniac_]

Actually the colliery owned houses in Easington were not built in the 1880's they were built in 1920's. Before the colliery opened Easington was a very small village , consisting mainly of farmers. They were very very modern for the time and a blessing to the miners who moved into them. My grandfather was one of 22 and lived in this 'godforsaken place' , none of those died. Most deaths not work related were due to the fact that they would not pay for doctors, or epidemics.
I still live in your god forsaken place.
There are a family of Spooners living in Murton,4 miles from here, you may be related to them.