Author Topic: Patrick Brown/Helen O'Donnell  (Read 10101 times)

Offline Citizen Smith

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Patrick Brown/Helen O'Donnell
« on: Wednesday 06 September 06 11:31 BST (UK) »
Hi.  Any help appreciated as I'm stuck on some Irish rellies. 

My great grandfather, James Brown born 1963c, married Agnes Hope Chalmers in Burntisland, Fife, Scotland, had about 10 kids and died 1942.  On the certs I have he came from Donegal, Ireland.  No more specific on  area, I'm afraid.

His parents were Patrick Brown and Helen O'Donnell.  I think(?) they stayed in Donegal while James came to Scotland as a young man looking for work. 

I have some info on a number of Patrick Brown(e)s from Donegal from the Griffiths evaluation but don't know which is the right one.  I would like to find their marriage certificate and work back from that.  I imagine Patrick and Helen were born around 1835 and married around 1860.

Can anyone help?

Sarah  ???
Kirkcaldy and Dysart: Kinnaird, Brown, McDougall, Page
Burntisland: Brown, Chalmers
Perth: Low
Donegal: Browne, O'Donnell
Montrose: Allardice
Dorset: Allen

Offline Christopher

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Re: Patrick Brown/Helen O'Donnell
« Reply #1 on: Monday 14 April 08 14:54 BST (UK) »
Hello Sarah,

There are three items required when searching for Irish ancestors.

1. Denomination.
2. Parish.
3. Townland.

You'll have to rely on Church records as Patrick was born before Civil Registration was introduced in Ireland. Non Catholic marriages were registered from 1845 onwards. When registration for BDMS started in 1864 some people didn't bother with the registration for a few years after that date. Keep your fingers crossed that church records still exist.

Christopher

Offline Citizen Smith

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Re: Patrick Brown/Helen O'Donnell
« Reply #2 on: Friday 02 May 08 16:19 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the info Christopher - would like some more advice if you have the time!
 
I have 7 Patrick Brown(e)s from the Griffiths with your suggested demomination (all RC), parish and townland list they are as follows

Letterkenny Ballystrang
Kilteevogue Ballykergan
Kilteevogue Cronakerny
Kilteevogue Cronamuck
Kilteevogue Stroangarrow
Dungloe or Lettermacward Loughsalt
Dunglow or Lettermacward Tievegarvlagh

I've got 2 questions.  Firstly, what would you say is the best next step to take.  Would I go to Donegal Town and look up centrally or to each parish first.  Next question is do you know where Ballystrang or Tievegarvlagh are?  I can find the others but no idea about these two.

Thanks so much for all your help.

Sarah

Kirkcaldy and Dysart: Kinnaird, Brown, McDougall, Page
Burntisland: Brown, Chalmers
Perth: Low
Donegal: Browne, O'Donnell
Montrose: Allardice
Dorset: Allen

Offline leprechaun

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Re: Patrick Brown/Helen O'Donnell
« Reply #3 on: Friday 02 May 08 16:39 BST (UK) »
Ballystrang. Townland civil Parish conwal P.L.U. Letterkenny

Tievegarolagh Townland civil Parish Templecrone P.L.U. Glenties.

     Co, Donegal  Lep


Offline Christopher

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Re: Patrick Brown/Helen O'Donnell
« Reply #4 on: Friday 02 May 08 17:40 BST (UK) »
Ballystrang. Townland civil Parish conwal P.L.U. Letterkenny

Tievegarolagh Townland civil Parish Templecrone P.L.U. Glenties.

     Co, Donegal  Lep

Conwal - Links www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,302469.0.html

Links - Templecrone www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=302470.new#new

Christopher

Offline leprechaun

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Re: Patrick Brown/Helen O'Donnell
« Reply #5 on: Friday 02 May 08 18:26 BST (UK) »
Sarah,Christopher has given you some good link's for you to look at.
  Ok  The name Helen could also be Eleanor,Ellen,Helen.
  There was a Patrick O'Donnell Born in 1809
                   His wife was Eleanor----- Born in 1813.
Children were Daughter Eleanor Born 1836
                              "      Bridget    "      1838
                        Son        George   "      1840
                        Son       Charles    "      1842
                   Daughter   Grace       "       1847.
The Births in Ireland one can never put an exact date they are often can be one or two years out. Sometimes I have found even Fives years out.
   I would keep these in mind for it  is Eleanors Parents [Helen] It could be your Helen
        All Born in Co,Donegal in the Parish of  Templecarn. Lep
I will look to see if I can find anything on Brown Browne

Offline Citizen Smith

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Re: Patrick Brown/Helen O'Donnell
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 04 May 08 13:13 BST (UK) »
Thanks to both of you - really appreciate the help.  Will follow this up and let you know how I get on!
Sarah
Kirkcaldy and Dysart: Kinnaird, Brown, McDougall, Page
Burntisland: Brown, Chalmers
Perth: Low
Donegal: Browne, O'Donnell
Montrose: Allardice
Dorset: Allen

Offline odonnell

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Re: Patrick Brown/Helen O'Donnell
« Reply #7 on: Monday 05 May 08 12:06 BST (UK) »
Dear Sarah,
                  My great grandfather was Johnny Browne from Loughsalt,Donegal.According to the 1901 census he was 46 ,so that means he was born around 1863. He had a brother called James who "went to Edinburgh" and was never heard of again. He also had a brother names Patrick who it is believed "died young" ,a brother Neil and a sister Bridget.
         Their f.ather was called Patrick Browne but was known as "caftien" = captain: no one knows why.
It has been deduced that his wife was an Ellen or perhaps Helen.
                                 

Offline Citizen Smith

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Re: Patrick Brown/Helen O'Donnell
« Reply #8 on: Monday 05 May 08 17:59 BST (UK) »
How interesting O'Donnell!  Of course, all these Patricks, Helens, O'Donnells and Browns don't necessarily mean there is a link but it's definitely worth following up.  If you have any links or more info I would be delighted to receive it and/or to let you know what documentation I have. 

I have just got an address for a cousin of my late father who is in his seventies.  I plan to write to him this week to see if he can fill in any gaps.  My James first turns up on the 1891 Scottish Census in Burntisland - aged 28 and lodging in a flat in High Street, Burntisland.  He is working as a Shale Miner and his birthplace is Ireland, Donegal.  A lot of Irish men found work at Shale Works - there was another big one near Edinburgh and they often moved around.  In 1891 James was sharing a room with another Irish man called Peter Reilly.  Funnily enough they are living in the same building as the Uncle and Grandmother of Agnes Hope Chalmers who he marries round about this time!

James marries Agnes and they have at least 6 children (Isabella, Ellen, Jane, Patrick, Christina and Agnes) possibly another 2 boys called John and Robert but I haven't found anything to back that up yet.  Agnes is my grandmother and she had one son, John, my Dad.

Wouldn't it be great if your Johnny turned out to be my James brother!  I'm desparate to find out where my Donegal family comes from.

All the best

Sarah
Kirkcaldy and Dysart: Kinnaird, Brown, McDougall, Page
Burntisland: Brown, Chalmers
Perth: Low
Donegal: Browne, O'Donnell
Montrose: Allardice
Dorset: Allen