Author Topic: "Bare Knuckle" fighters  (Read 20247 times)

Offline conahy calling

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,471
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: "Bare Knuckle" fighters
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 10 May 18 10:19 BST (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat Chris88.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,185004.0.html 



This link explains how to add an image.  Best of luck.

cc

Offline rathmore

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,016
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: "Bare Knuckle" fighters
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 10 May 18 15:30 BST (UK) »
in 1901 a Cuthbert Carr aged 29lived at 15 Henry Street Londonderry No 3 urban, with his wife Elizabeth, daughter Clementina 4 and Mary Stewart 10 months he was a Shipwright.

In 1911 a Cuthbert Carr lived at 13 Bloomdale street Pottinger Down wife now Susanna, Clementina 14, Mary Stewart 10 also a Margaret Moffett daughter about 10months.

Offline rathmore

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,016
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: "Bare Knuckle" fighters
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 10 May 18 15:30 BST (UK) »

Offline TheWhuttle

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
  • How many boys?
    • View Profile
Re: "Bare Knuckle" fighters
« Reply #12 on: Monday 14 May 18 00:31 BST (UK) »
Hi Wendl,

Can't help you with Cuthbert Carr.

We do have a family anecdote w.r.t. Silver McKEE.
He decided to honour the family with his (and others) presence one night at the pub/family_home in the countryside just outside Belfast.
Unfortunately he was already well fueled up, and soon started causing an unwelcome ruckus, disturbing other customers.

He was given his immediate marching orders.
He left the premises reluctantly uttering a tirade of abuse, threatening to come back the next day to do dire things.

He did return as promised.
The family were geared up to receive him (appropriately aware of his reputation).

Our battleship, Great-aunt Mart, was up front.
She was backed up by our conciliatory "angel" great-aunt "Nan".
Then by the youngster of the family, my grandad (with a car starter handle up his jumper).
Finally, great-uncle "Jim" was at the open window upstairs with his duck-hunting blunderbuss charged and ready for action.
[Er ... presumably with a view to firing "wide"!]

Silver got out of the car on his own and asked to talk to Mart alone.
He apologised profusely for his behaviour the previous night, and asked for forgiveness.
Such was duly given, and he was given permission to visit again (subject to good behaviour).


So, perhaps such so-called "hard men" were just like the rest of us ...
[With a need for love/inclusion?]

Reckon that this must have occurred in the (1940s?) / 1950s.

Thats "Nan" (Mary Ann), Jim & Martha on the front row of my monicker photo.
All sadly long gone now, but deep memories always cherished.
[The six in the photo were only the first half of the family, 3 boys & 3 girls!
 Oops, I just gave away the secret of how many boys are in the photo.
 No one ever did respond over the years to my challenge.
 Young boys used to be dressed in skirts 'til they were out of the "nappy" phase of their upbringing.
 The photo dates from ~1903/4, when Jim was about 2/3 years old.]


Capt. Jock

NOTE

When you enter a pub, a private premises, you are there at the invitation of the publican.
Your right even to be there, or to be served, is entirely at the discretion of the licence holder.
The best way to think of it is that it is their home, so they will invite-in/entertain who they want.
Our family's pub, in those days, consisted only of a small room (with 4 small tables, and a fireplace) adjacent to the living room, with another small room behind the bar "for the ladies".

[Many pubs have their origins in the front rooms of houses.
 This followed the relaxation of laws in 1830.
 This was due to the Gin ("Mother's Ruin") crisis.
 Soldiers returning from the Napoleonic Wars brought their love of Dutch "ginever" home.
 This was a medical astringent linament, meant to be applied externally to ease the pain of sores.
 However, it contained a strong alcohol component, so was duly imbibed.
 This then flooded in to the UK (of Britain and all of Ireland) at the time.
 Such produced huge social, and country balance-of-payments, problems for the Government.
 They decided to encourage local production (beer, whisky), and to open up the points of sale.
 You could buy a spirit licence for 2 Guineas and start selling from home.
 Result: A disproportionate number of "spirit sellers" appear in the 1832 OS Survey Memoirs.
 e.g. Villages might contain 1 Butcher, 2 Bakers & 7 Spirit Retailers!
 Er, 'twas all a tad too "successful"!
 The laws were then tightened-up shortly afterwards, in 1832, differentiating pubs & off-licences.
 Many publican-ing families can trace their origins to this time, back 4 or 5 generations.]

The earliest evidence of alcohol production dates from Egyptian times circa 3,000 B.C.
It was well known to the Saxons (as "beer"), recognised as a means of making men "strong" before battle.
The Vikings used it to enable their warriors to go "beserk" for immediate "operational" effect.

No doubt it was a strong element in fueling the courage of Belfast's bare-knuckle fighters.
[Though, perhaps, its contribution to the extended-term effectiveness and health of the individual imbibers is debatable, as is its impact on the wider community ...]
WHITTLEY - Donegore, Ballycraigy, Newtownards, Guernsey, PALI
WHITTLE - Dublin, Glenavy, Muckamore, Belfast; Jamaica; Norfolk (Virginia), Baltimore (Maryland), New York
CHAINE - Ballymena, Muckamore, Larne
EWART, DEWART - Portglenone, Ballyclare
McAFEE, WALKER - Ballyrashane

"You can't give kindness away enough, it keeps coming back to you."
Mark Twain (aka Samuel CLEMENTS) [Family origins from Ballynure, Co. Antrim.]