Author Topic: Matthews of Dundee 1871 Census help please.  (Read 4108 times)

Offline DianeM

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Matthews of Dundee 1871 Census help please.
« on: Thursday 07 September 06 03:06 BST (UK) »
I'm looking for my GG grandfather James Matthew and my GG grandmother Margaret McDonald Paterson.  I don't know where either were born or their birth dates.  I know of two children James Paterson (my G grandfather) and Robert (from mother's death cert. in 1877, )

James Paterson Matthew's marriage cert in 1872 gives the address 49 Castle Street.

I have searched Scotland's People and found only one likely one.  Living at 20 Castle Street are James and Margaret aged 57 and 59, his occupation looks like Insurance ..... but on the son's marriage cert. the father is a millwright ironworker.  The census lists the children: Margaret, 22, James 27, Robert 25, Patrick, 25 and Elizabeth 23.

Problems:  James (son) is 22 in 1872 on his marriage cert. and 27 on 1871 Census.
James (father) occupation is different.

Is there some way someone could check the census to see if there is a Matthew family living at 17 or 79  Dudhope which is the address given on the marriage certificate in 1872.

Thanks so much.
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Matthew - Dundee, Scotland
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Offline DianeM

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Re: Matthews of Dundee 1871 Census help please.
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 07 September 06 03:17 BST (UK) »
A correction to the post above.  I'm pretty sure that the address 49 Castle Street is the church's address.
Slorance - one name study worldwide
Frankham - Gloucestershire
Matheson - N. Uist, Invernesshire
Matthew - Dundee, Scotland
Shiel - Hawick, Scotland
Walker - Glasgow, Scotland
Condon - Ireland, Blackburn, Birmingham, Lancaster
Day - London
Hart - Devises, Wiltshire > London
Warren - Warminster Wiltshhire >Frome, Somerset > London
Peagam -
White - London

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Offline Sherlock

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Re: Matthews of Dundee 1871 Census help please.
« Reply #2 on: Friday 08 September 06 09:05 BST (UK) »
The 1871 census is available online at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk This is a pay per view site with 30 credits costing £6.
Andrew, Donald (Wester Highlands), Muckersie (Perth), Symon(s) (Dundee)

Offline Betty Boo

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Re: Matthews of Dundee 1871 Census help please.
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 09 September 06 06:59 BST (UK) »
Hi DianeM,

The way you have written this all out is very confusing, I did read it a few times and I am still mixed up. Is this your fathers or mothers side of the family??

1.† Do you have this parents birth cenrtificates?, were they married in Scotland? Do you have the marriage certificates?

2.† Do you have any of the childrens birth certificates??† Were any of the children† married in Scotland?† Do you have any of their marriage certificates?

3.† You work from this informatiom!!

4.† The son James in obviously the wrong one as he can't be two different ages 27 on 1871 census and 22 a year later on marriage certificate.



You have to work backward not forward and backwards as you are doing, no wonder you are mixed up.

Elizabeth

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Matthews of Dundee 1871 Census help please.
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 09 September 06 12:58 BST (UK) »
Hi Diane

There are two marriages showing in IGI for a James Matthew in 1872 Dundee, which one is your g grandfather?:

1. Spouse: MARY THOMSON Marriage: 12 APR 1872  Dundee, Angus, Scotland
2. Spouse: MARGRET ROSS Marriage:06 DEC 1872 Dundee, Angus, Scotland

There appears to be another couple in Dundee, a James Matthews and Margaret Stratton (various spellings of surname) who were having children around the same time:

1. MARGARET MATTHEW  Birth: 13 SEP 1838 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
2. JOHN MATTHEW Birth: 21 SEP 1851 Christening: 14 OCT 1851 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
3. JAMES MATTHEW Birth: 04 JUL 1841 Christening: 04 JUL 1841 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
4. JESSIE MATTHEW Birth: 24 FEB 1854 Christening: 23 MAR 1854 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
5. ROBERT MATTHEW Birth: 22 AUG 1843 Christening: 22 AUG 1843 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
6. ELIZABETH WEBSTER MATTHEW Birth: 29 AUG 1847 Christening: 29 AUG 1847 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
7. MARY ANN MATTHEW Birth: 04 SEP 1849 Christening: 04 SEP 1849 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
8. PATRICK KINNEAR MATTHEW  Birth: 15 SEP 1845 Dundee, Angus, Scotland

Now, a lot of these children's names match the 1871 Census entry you have been looking at. Given that the father James's occupation is also different to what you have on the 1872 marriage entry, I would say it's probable that you don't have your James yet in the 1871 Census.

Also, your GG grandmother Margaret died in 1877 at the age of 56, which also doesn't match the age of the Margaret in 1871 who is shown as age 59. A Margaret Matthew other name Stratton died in 1888 (birth year 1812) in the St Mary's district of Dundee.

There are 5 entries showing in Dundee for a James Mat*hew* aged 19-23. Have you looked at these?

Regards.

Monica
   
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline DianeM

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Re: Matthews of Dundee 1871 Census help please.
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 09 September 06 16:20 BST (UK) »
Thank you all for your help, and sorry that I was so scattered when I wrote the post.

Hereís what I know:

GG Grandparents:

James Matthew & Margaret McDonald Paterson

Their sons:

James Paterson Matthew (my G Grandfather)

Robert Matthew

Marriage Cert of James Paterson Matthew & Margaret Rollo Grubb

Marriage Certificate, Edinburgh & Glasgow Records Office
6 December, 1872 at 49 Castle Street, Dundee
James Matthew, Power Loom Tender, Bachelor age 22, 19 Dudhope Crescent, Dundee
Margaret Grubb, Spinster age 21, Power Loom Weaver, Spinster, Name of Grubb given to the bride by the partner who adopted her.
Parents:
James Matthew, Millwright Ironworker
Margaret McDonald Matthew, MS Paterson
David Ross, Private Soldier
Ann Rollo, housekeeper

Death Certificate
St. Andrew, Dundee
May 10, 1877
Margaret Matthew, Widow of James Matthew, General Labourer
8 Lumdsy (sp)  Lane
Informant: Robert Matthew, 96 Dudhope Street.

From  the two certificates I found the son Robert, the birth years of the son (1850) & wife (1851),  address at time of marriage and address of mother and son at the motherís death.

Iíve really spent lots of money on Scotlandís People, but James Matthew is such a common name.

I hope this is a bit clearer now.

DianeM

Slorance - one name study worldwide
Frankham - Gloucestershire
Matheson - N. Uist, Invernesshire
Matthew - Dundee, Scotland
Shiel - Hawick, Scotland
Walker - Glasgow, Scotland
Condon - Ireland, Blackburn, Birmingham, Lancaster
Day - London
Hart - Devises, Wiltshire > London
Warren - Warminster Wiltshhire >Frome, Somerset > London
Peagam -
White - London

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Matthews of Dundee 1871 Census help please.
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 09 September 06 16:32 BST (UK) »
Diane

Do you have your James on later censuses (1881 on) confirming age and birthplace?

I had a look at Margaret Paterson Mathew's death cert. Have you been able to make out her mother's maiden name - dreadful writing by the registrar!

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Matthews of Dundee 1871 Census help please.
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 09 September 06 16:48 BST (UK) »
I've found two of James and Margaret Ross/Rollo/Grub's children:

1. MARGARET PATERSON MATTHEW  Birth: 06 SEP 1873 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
2. JEMIMA MATTHEW Birth: 22 JUL 1872 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Matthews of Dundee 1871 Census help please.
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 09 September 06 16:56 BST (UK) »
This could well be them on the 1881 Census:

James, 30, Jute Power Loom Tenter, b. Markinch, Fife
Margt., 29, b. Ferry Port on Craig, Fife
Jemima, 8 , b. Dundee
William, 6, b. England
Jessie, 3, b. England
Maggie, 2, b. Dundee
Alexander, 3, b. Dundee

Address: Mc Larens Buildings Lyon Street, Dundee

The Margaret b. 1873 looks to maybe have died, a second Margaret showing born later.

James's birth place (and wife Margaret's) may well explain why you haven't been able to find them in Dundee in earlier censuses.
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk