1881 1891 Census - SAICH - COMPLETED

[behindthefrogs]

Herbert Charles Saich was born in 1875 in Hendon District.  Both of his parents died in 1878 and his siblings Florence 1872, Ann 1867, Minnie 1878, and Arthur 1870 can all be found living with various relatives in 1881 in the Ruislip area.

By 1901 Herbert is at Chatham Barracks but I can't find him in the intervening years.  Can anyone help please?

I know Ann was with her grand parents (Churchill) in 1891 but I have not found Florence, Arthur and Minnie in 1891 and I know at least the first two survived beyond that date.  To confuse matters the children do seem to adopt the Churchill surname at times.

David

[Alan7636]

Hopefully David this is a start

1891 Census RG12/1021 Folio 20 Page 13
Address Eastcote Road Ruislip, Eastcote, Middlesex

William Saich      Head              Widower  49   Publican Bn London
Jas Marion Long  Stepdaughter  Single      19               Bn  Eascott
Florence Saich    Niece              Single      18               Bn  Eastcott
Minnie Saich       Niece                            13                Bn Mill Hill


Unfortunately Herbert did not come to light in my search.

Regards

Alan

[Lesanne]

1891- Herbert Saich.

Found a Joseph and Kate in Hackey. son Herbert 2.
Any good to you, while disc 1 loaded.      Lesanne.

[behindthefrogs]

Thank you Alan.  I am fairly sure that that is the Black Horse Inn in Eastcote, or at least William will be running it.  The step daughter's name should be Ruth but thank you it is the right family.

Lesanne, thank you but I think that is the other Saich family.
There appear to be two groups who came to England around 1700.  One in the Ruislip area of London which traces back to a single immigrant from Ghent and the other in the East End of London and Essex.  I have a fairly complete tree for the former family and I can't fit the Joseph that you found into it.

David
 

[Alan7636]

David

I don’t know if the following is the Arthur from your family but it is interesting to note that Charles was serving in the armed forces in 1901 because there is a record in 1891 of an Arthur Saich aged 19 (bn abt 1872 in Hanwell Middlesex) serving as a Private in the Royal Munster Fusiliers at Weedon Barracks, Northampton. RG12/1204 folio 123 page 4.

In the 1881 census there is also an Arthur Saich age 12 (also bn in Hanwell Middlesex abt 1869) living with his Uncle, William Saich at Frog Lane, Ruislip Middlesex. RG11/1334 folio 22 page 14.

Alan

[behindthefrogs]

Thank you Alan,

You are correct that that is my Arthur.  I knew he was with William in 1881.  That is the same William as his sisters were with in 1891.  I also knew he was in the Royal Munster Fusiliers when he died in 1913 but did not expect to find him with them and at Weedon in 1891.  His eldest child was born in Michelstown Cork in 1900.

I have decided that I was confused as to where Minnie and Florence were in 1881 and I am now wondering if they, together with Herbert, were in the Union or somewhere similar and only recorded by their initials.  By 1991 Herbert could have been old enough to have enlisted as a boy soldier in his regiment, the Bedfordshires, although I am not sure whether this was possible at census time when he would still have been fifteen.

Thank you again

David

[Alan7636]

Hi again David

I've had another look for Herbert but without success, you did say that the children were apt to call themselves Churchill, where did this family reside in the 1890,s? might be worth having a look at a few of them to see if the children are there.

Alan

[behindthefrogs]

Herbert's mother was Sarah nee Churchill and her parents were Charles and Ann Churchill.  Charles was dead by 1881 but Ann Saich was living with her grandmother in both 1881 and 1891.

Herbert actually changed his name to Churchill by deed poll in 1919 when he was a lLieutenant in the Bedfordshire regiment.

They lived in Bury Street Ruislip which ws not far from the Black Horse Inn I mentioned above.  The Churchill family in general lived in this area with some a bit further north in Harefield.  I have found any likely children calling themselves children in 1881 or 1891.

David

[Tir-na-nOg]

Hello,

My great grandfather was Arthur SAICH, the brother of Herbert Charles Churchill.
I have a copy of info. that mentions about Herbert Charles Saich changing his name to CHURCHILL on a write-up from 1919 where there are a number of other people changing their Germanic sounding names to something that sounds more English. Arthur was a sergeant and based in the South of Ireland where he fell in love with my maternal great grandmother. His story is both sad and happy.