Author Topic: 1951 look up for Patrick Brophy in Manchester  (Read 5307 times)

Offline Acorn

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 20
    • View Profile
1951 look up for Patrick Brophy in Manchester
« on: Saturday 21 October 06 01:18 BST (UK) »
I am trying to find Patrick Brophy's date of birth so I can tie some information together. As far as I know in 1951 he was either living at Ducie street or Cecil street Manchester. Any help getting his date of birth would be very much appreciated.

John.
Names found so far in my family tree are:
Brophy, Henry, Gilcrist, Keoghan, Williams, Peasley.
Gilcrist could be spelt Gilchrist, not too sure yet.

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline AMBLY

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,505
    • View Profile
Re: 1951 look up for Patrick Brophy in Manchester
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 21 October 06 09:39 BST (UK) »
Hi there
Sorry I don't have the information - but just so as we know who it is being looked for - I assume it's:

Patrick Joseph  BROPHY
Born abt 1877 - possibly Ireland
Died in Manchester 1952  aged 75 and buried southern cemetery

More info on old topic here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,17708.msg937705.html#msg937705

Have you obtained his death cert John?
Any information on it?

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Acorn

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 20
    • View Profile
Re: 1951 look up for Patrick Brophy in Manchester
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 21 October 06 11:21 BST (UK) »
Yes that's the Patrick I'm looking for. I haven't tried to obtain a death cert as I only need his date of birth. I am not too sure if I can get a copy online, or if the costs are quite high. I'm a bit of a novice at all this family research so any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

Regards
John.
Names found so far in my family tree are:
Brophy, Henry, Gilcrist, Keoghan, Williams, Peasley.
Gilcrist could be spelt Gilchrist, not too sure yet.

Offline CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 55,495
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: 1951 look up for Patrick Brophy in Manchester
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 21 October 06 13:16 BST (UK) »
Looking at your previous posts on this person, you know he married Ann Gilcrist (Gilchrist) and had a son in 1925.

There are lots of Patrick Brophy's on the IGI and also on the censuses so it would make sense to try and establish his fathers name to help narrow it down a bit.

If you look for the marriage of Patrick & Ann on the GRO index and buy a copy of their marriage cert (cost is £7) it will give you that information

You can now search the full GRO index yourself free of charge at
http://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/rectype/vital/freebmd/bmd.aspx  Choose “Complete BMD Index Ranges & Images 1837-1983

If you only have a dial up internet connection and you live in the UK, you may find it easier to view the same index at your nearest main library as the images take a while to download.  If you have broadband, they only take a few seconds

The partially transcribed index (freebmd) can also be searched on the same website or at http://freebmd.rootsweb.com

Copy certificates can be obtained online at www.gro.gov.uk
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Acorn

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 20
    • View Profile
Re: 1951 look up for Patrick Brophy in Manchester
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 21 October 06 17:54 BST (UK) »
Hello CaroleW,
                        As far as I know Patric was never married to Ann as he was a catholic and had already been married previously, probably in Ireland. The reason I need Patrick's date of birth is so that I can find his fathers name. From a website which I think is ran by the church of Jesus Christ latter day saints, I have found two Patric Brophy's born in Ireland 1877. One father is called John Brophy the same as my self and the other is called William Brophy. The information with each name gives a date of birth for each of the Patrick Brophy's. If I can find a match for his date of birth It will help to confirm his parents names.

I do not know what the GRO index stands for but I will have a look at the links you posted. I suppose any census covering 1925 to 1951 would give me the information I need, as he would have been in Manchester for most of that time in either of the two streets previously mentioned.
Names found so far in my family tree are:
Brophy, Henry, Gilcrist, Keoghan, Williams, Peasley.
Gilcrist could be spelt Gilchrist, not too sure yet.

Offline SandraC

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,245
  • Isabella Annie with Brenda
    • View Profile
Re: 1951 look up for Patrick Brophy in Manchester
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 21 October 06 18:08 BST (UK) »
Hi Acorn

The census documents are sealed for 100 years after they were taken so you'll be waiting a while yet  ::)

The Electoral Register or Trade Directories might help but I think they are only in the Central Library in Manchester  :-\ perhaps someone will correct me if I am wrong.

GRO = General register Office - this is the place that keeps all the Birth Marriage & Death certificate information for England & Wales. You can order certificates online from them.

Good luck
SandraC
Researching Clark, Holt, Threlfall, Platt, Walker, Bowers, Culshaw in Manchester, Salford, Ormskirk & Southport.
Also, Craggs, Hamer, Sampson, Hesketh, McNamara, Hodson.

All Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 55,495
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: 1951 look up for Patrick Brophy in Manchester
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 21 October 06 18:20 BST (UK) »
Was James (your father)  the only child of Patrick & Ann or did he have any OLDER siblings born to Patrick & Ann

Can you confirm that your father was born 1925 - as per your previous post - as the GRO index does not have a James Brophy or a James Gilchrist with a mothers name of Gilchrist/Gilcrist in 1925
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline AMBLY

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,505
    • View Profile
Re: 1951 look up for Patrick Brophy in Manchester
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 21 October 06 20:55 BST (UK) »
Hi John

As well as CaroleW's important question re: other siblings with Ann GILC(H)RIST and James' birth ...

Robert BROPHY: You mentioned that Patrick also had a son Robert - I presumed from his first Marriage . What else do you know about Robert? Tracing him  - finding out where he lived, when, where and who with - may lead to Patrick's records that you're after.

Patrick BROPHY: Death Certificate - the document could contain important information. Regarding where he died, his age as recorded, and the informant..
Getting any certificate is always a risk of it being waste money, but you never know - could be a goldmine too.
Also, what did he do for a living throughout out the years? And, did you find out if there was anyone else buried in the same Grave as Patrick - and who he was buried next to?

WW1:   At age approx 37 in 1914, Patrick was old enough AND young enough to join up & play a part. The Nat. Archives do hold a medal card in the name of Patrick J BROPHY, in the Royal Irish Fusiliers, Regiment Number G/240;  Rank Private
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
To see the one I found: Search : patrick j brophy

Some information on what you might expect from a Medal Card here - they may not hold much, but can identify details to assist getting a full military record.
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/ANGUS/2004-05/1083665033
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,60888.0.html
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals-buchan.asp

James BROPHY, your Dad - I assume you have seen his actual birth record, which will confirm important details such as address of where he was born, his registered name, who informed of the birth, his mother's name / maiden name etc.

"Local 1918 Absent Voters Register" - perhaps this may help if Patrick is listed in earlier Lancashire records.  But I believe you need to know an address, as it's not indexed by name - this is where you can utilise address' given on Dad's birth record, etc....  See more info here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,172206.0.html

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline Acorn

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 20
    • View Profile
Re: 1951 look up for Patrick Brophy in Manchester
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 21 October 06 22:10 BST (UK) »
Thank you very much for all your replies, its given me quite a bit to look into. I didn't realize the census was not available for 100 years.

Just to clarify My Grandmother who went by the name Annie Brophy even though she was never married to Patrick had two sons. One son was James Joseph Brophy my father the other son was George Brophy. As far as I know Patrick was not Georges father but brought George up as his own. Patrick did have a son called Robert in his first marriage, he may have had other children too, but I know nothing of that side of the family.

I don't have a birth certificate for my father but I have come across his death certificate which gives his date of birth as 19/03/1925 it gives his place of birth as Glossop, in Derbyshire. I happen to remember my father telling me that he was born in a railway waiting room at a place called Dinting which I think is near Glossop.

I'm not too sure of the Gilchrist spelling but I may be able to find it with some more rooting through old papers. I have come across an old will of my fathers which was written 09/07/56, at that time it states his address as being 79, Cecil street, Chorlton-on-Medlock, Manchester.

CaroleW, you mentioned there was no record of an Ann Gilchrist with a son called James Brophy. Perhaps it's because she was going by the name of Ann or Annie Brophy, one more thing is that her son George was about a year older than my father James Brophy.

If the above information yields any more clues please let me know. In the mean time I am going to see if I can find any more old papers. Thanks to all your replies I have quite a few leads to follow, its really appreciated.

Regards
John.
Names found so far in my family tree are:
Brophy, Henry, Gilcrist, Keoghan, Williams, Peasley.
Gilcrist could be spelt Gilchrist, not too sure yet.