Info: Immigrants from Eastern Europe - changing names

[JustinL]

Kismet,

Plotzk was the Yiddish form of Plock. You have a definite ancestral town.

I would doubt that Fiszer (Fisher) became Fasser; the names have two different roots.

Fiszer pronounced Fisher is derived from the German Fisch = Fish. It was a common nickname (kinui) for the Hebrew name Ephraim.

Fasser, on the other hand, comes from the German word Fass = barrel or keg.

Have you found any matches in the JRI-Poland database with the spelling Fassa?

Justin

[kismet]

Thanks JustinL

I have done all the usual searches - yes, including JRI-Poland.  My point was that my grandfather changed his name on naturalisation from Israel Klein to Cyril Keene, so it came as somewhat of a surprise to find that his mother had been buried with the name Sophia Fasser (on the death certificate) but Simcha on the gravestone - especially when he gave his mother's name (on his naturalisation papers) as Joyce Berliner Klein!!   

I was not suggesting that Fiszer became Fasser - merely that the English person taking the information for the death certificate might have written it down wrongly.

Kismet

[JustinL]

Hello Kismet,

I quite understand, and did not wish to distract from your main point.

One further interesting point. The forename Israel was often shortened to Srol or something similar. It's not much of a jump to Cyril really, is it?

Justin

[lazer]

Just joined the forum and have read your comments with great interest.
My father was called Nagel and was born in Wejherowo, Rumia.  When he came to England during the war he changed his name to Grzybowski (to avoid his family being traced if caught?) and finally to Nagiel.  I believe Nagel is in fact a German surname so I persume that his father or Grandfather was in fact born in Germany.
It does make things very complicated as although he was naturalised no trace of his application can be found by the relevant office.

[kismet]

The other problem I have is that, although my great grandparents arrived in the UK in about 1890 I have been unable to find them on any census return.  My grandfather first appears on the 1911 census, but his naturalisation papers show that he was brought here when he was 3 or 4 - as he was born (in Plock) in 1886 I would have expected to find them on the 1891 and the 1901 - but nothing.  There is absolutely no trace of my great grandparents on any census return.

But then, equally, I can't find them in the JRI-Poland records because I have no idea what their real surname was.  They arrived as Klein - the reason for the change to Klein (according to our family history) was that it was changed by the German authorities at their port of departure who could not pronounce their Russian/Polish name and so substituted Klein as they were not very tall, but no-one knows what it was originally.   

[brigidmac]

My ancestors came from Russian latvia ; the surname Fellman is fairly consistent tho sometimes gets a D in midddle .   the first names have incredible variations at 1st I didn't see that it was the same family ;Father Leizer-mendel became alternately  Mendel, lazurus Samuel L
interestingly the girls name Mera ,Basse, Sora Taube +Kahya Became; May,Bessie ,Sarah and Tilly when were enrolled at Manchester jews school 1891-1898
 2 more Girls were born there  Golde + Ester
; Golde's name changed to Gertrude when she was enrolled in  Churchof England school in Birkenhead but she may have reverted to Golde in USA after 1910  Tilly became Matilda

Jewishgen was very useful for finding all the original names

[brigidmac]

lovely picture Kismet
have you tried school registers for your great grandfather + his siblings
between 1890 and 1911 this is how I turned up alternative names for my ggfather' s siblings + father they also sometimes give an address + you may be able to find the same family with name variations from an address on 1901 census

[brigidmac]

re the mother ; could Fasser be her  maiden name ...I vaguely remember reading somewhere that jewish surnames can be passed down thru the women .

my gggmother's maiden name was Landsmann ..interestingly GGgfather's 2nd wife was also nee Landsman ..maybe he married his dead wife's sister or cousin

If you are lucy enough to have any gguncle/aunts who die in Scotland the mother's maiden name is given on death certificates ; I only found gggmother's maiden name from a 1960 death certificate she  herself had died in 1898

[brigidmac]

Some people took the place name of their origin or the name of a town they moved to .

I've come across a DNA match who has Kurland b 1950 at top of her tree with  CURLAND daughter b1866 I wonder if they could be connected to my LANDSMAN  side .."of the land" who came from.Kurland / Courland in Russian Latvia

I have seen families who take names LONDON LANCASTER one DNA  match told me her grandfather had chosen the name MALVERN. Because he'd seen a picture of the Malvern hills

And I saw a YORKSHIRE. Family whose name had transitioned from  JURGSHUR thru YACOROSKY   as they travelled across Europe to USA between 1890 + 1920 ( I don't remember exact spellings but phonetically original name sounded like Yorkshire .

For those of you who think we.ll never know ...with DNA and large trees I think we may find confirmation of some of our theories

I've been trying to find original names for some GORDON s and MILLER

Trees may converge on the name GERSHOL
I wonder if MILLER name could be based on proffession how do you say a miller in Hebrew Latvian Lithuanian + German ?



My  Jewish ancestor came from Courland/ KURLAND