Murray Muddle!

[Clare Fowler]

Hi all,

I am having some issues sorting out my Murrays in Hawick.  I think I have some conflicting evidence in certificates and census records (so what's new?!!), and I am hoping that by putting it all down in writing here either I can work it out myself or some of you wonderful people can help sort  it out.

Here goes...

My GGG Grandmother was Ann(a) Murray born circa 1854 in Hawick (have never found a birth record unfortunately).  Her marriage and death certs both show father as David Murray and Helen Murray, previously Clark, maiden surname Hardie.  So far so good...

I have Helen Murray nee Hardie's death certificate, which mentions no marriage to anyone called Clark, but this is possibly unknown to George Murray, her son who registered the death.

So to census records - my issue is matching the correct children to the correct parents as I think that Helen Hardie may have been David Murray's 2nd wife.  There is no mention of a previous wife, but the census records seem to suggest this.  I cannot find any record of marriages for David Murray and Helen Hardie/Clark or births of the children in the OPRs which is also frustrating. 

David Murray died in 1860, so I started by looking for 1851 census, and found the following in Hawick:

David      Murray   Head        aged 50 (correct age to agree with death cert)
Helen      Murray   Wife         aged 36 (again seems correct for death cert)
James     Murray   Son          aged 20 (seems a little old to be Helen's)
George    Murray   Son          aged 8
Isabella   Murray   Daughter   aged 2
Robert     Hardie    Brother-in-law (presumably Helen's brother)
Martha    Hardie    Sister-in-law (possibly Robert's wife?)

In 1861 however, we find Helen as expected in Hawick, but the family are not quite as expected...

Helen      Hardie    Head              aged 46
James     Murray   Stepson          aged 30  (agrees with 1851)
George    Murray   Stepson          aged 18
Isabella   Murray   Stepdaughter  aged 12
Ann        Murray   Stepdaughter  aged 8
Janet      Murray   servant           aged 14
Betsy      Hardie    Sister             aged 28   
Margaret Hardie    Daughter        aged 4 (Betsy's daughter?)
Helln       Hardie    Daughter        aged 2mo (again, Betsy's daughter?)

And going back to 1841 the most likely candidate seems to be the following, again in Hawick:

David     Murray   aged 40
David     Murray   aged 20
William   Murray  aged 15
Andrew  Murray   aged 15
James    Murray   aged 10

So which kids are actually Helen's?  And who was the mother of the rest of them?  And who was Helen's first husband?

To complicate matters, the 1851 census suggests that David Murray was born in Ireland, but the 1841 says he was born in the county.  I am getting to the point where I am not sure how to untangle them all

All help/thoughts/suggestions are welcome

Cheers,
Clare

[Arranroots]

Have you looked for Helen in 1841?

This is the nearest in age & has a brother Robert & sister Elizabeth (Betsey?)

Hawick, Roxburgh       1841/789/5/5/43

HARDIE   George   M   50   Woollen Stocking Maker Jrnymn   Yes
Isbell   F   45       Yes       
Agness   F   25   Scourer    Yes         
Helen   F   25   Ag Lab    Yes       
Robert    M   20   Woollen Stocking Maker Jrnymn    Yes         
Isbeal   F   15       Yes       
James   M   15   Woollen Stocking Maker Jrnymn    Yes         
Alison   F   10       Yes         
Elizabeth    F   5       Yes         
OLIVER   Robert   M   60   Taylor    Yes         
HARDIE   John   M   1       Yes

If correct, this narrows down the marriage date to a MR CLARK.

BUT there is also a Helen HARDIE working for an inn-keeper.  She is only 15 (rounded down?) but another of the servants is a Thomas CLARK:

 Tower Know, Hawick, Roxburgh    1841/789/2/2/30

CLARK   Thomas   M   30   Tanner & Currier    England         
           
HARDIE   Helen   F   15   Female Servant    Yes

(working for a FENWICK)

This might help a little?  Have you checked for a marriage to CLARK in England?

kind regards, Arranroots 

 

[Clare Fowler]

Hi Arranroots,

Sometimes I find posting like this quite good for concentrating the mind on the issue - getting all the facts that I know in one place rather than 'randomly' trying to work things out

I like the look of the first 1841 entry as the sibling names add up.  Also from Helen's death cert, her father was called George, which also helps.  Also, if the death cert and other census records are correct, she would have been 26 or 27 in 1841, so i think the 15 year-old is a bit young.

I hadn't looked in England yet as my knowledge of searching in England is not very good    However, I have now looked on the IGI (which I should have done long before now) and found a marriage for a Helen Hardie and David Clark in Hawick in 1838.  I know this is pre-1841, but maybe she was widowed very young   I may have to get myself into New Register House at some point to check this entry out.  Also, it appears that the volume of the OPRs for Hawick from 1819 to 1841 has deaths listed as well, so I might be able to see if he died before 1841.  I know from experience that I am unlikely to find anything in the Hawick MIs.

Cheers,
Clare