Author Topic: Whats the difference ?  (Read 1258 times)

Offline RJ_Paton

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,492
  • Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
    • View Profile
Whats the difference ?
« on: Monday 15 November 04 22:25 GMT (UK) »
What if any is the difference between a "Farm Servant" and a Farm labourer (or Ag. Labourer) ?

Especially where  an adult male is listed as Farm servant.

Offline Kazza

  • I am sorry but my emails are no longer working
  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,746
  • Looking into Holes
    • View Profile
Re: Whats the difference ?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 15 November 04 22:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Well I had always assumed a labourer came in for day work,  whereas a servant 'lived in'.

But assume makes an ass of u and me,  so I would be interested to know if there is a definitive answer.  ::)

Kazza.
Welsh Lass
Surname interests:
Clementsten, Hobson, Hole, Marden, O'Clements, Pitten, Sharland, Vickery (Vicary), Williams.

Area Interests:
Cardiff, Bampton, Bideford, Crediton, Wollaston, Somerset, Tidenham, Norway, Australia to Bristol.

Offline kmo

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 434
    • View Profile
Re: Whats the difference ?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 15 November 04 23:13 GMT (UK) »
Well if we're into assumptions.
How about  a farm labourer does agricultural work but a farm servant works in the farm house?

Offline Little Nell

  • Global Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 11,806
    • View Profile
Re: Whats the difference ?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 15 November 04 23:35 GMT (UK) »
Falkryn,

From notes I made from The Oxford Guide to Family History, farm servants were largely teenage boys and unmarried men who lived on the farm with their employers on terms specified in an annual hiring contract and commonly moved on at the end of the contract.  Ag labourers were married men who lived elsewhere (possibly in a tied cottage) and were paid by the job.

Farm service was a verbal contract for a shorter period than an apprenticeship, usually one year with the masters providing board, lodging and an agreed wage according to rates set up by JPs.  Farm servants were a separate group from day labourers.

Interesting, eh?

Nell
All census information: Crown Copyright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline RJ_Paton

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,492
  • Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
    • View Profile
Re: Whats the difference ?
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 16 November 04 17:17 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the information I had previously assumed that the term farm servant was used primarily in respect of youngsters but I came across it last night in repect of an adult male who was about 23 at the time.

The live in aspect of it would also tie in as his wife to be was also listed as a farm servant (although at a neighbouring farm).

Offline Lady Macbeth

  • 1965-2013
  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: Whats the difference ?
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 17 November 04 12:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi Falkyrn, you didn't say if this was in Scotland or England or elsewhere.  If in Scotland, I can give you a bit on this as my mother's side were all farm labourers.  Before I go off on one, is this Scotland and, if so, are we talking C18th, early or late C19th here?  This makes a difference.
Thanks
Lesley
Gegan, Geoghegan, Gagan, or any variation whatsoever in Ireland (particularly Co Offaly/Kings Co) and Scotland;
Symons and Symon in Angus, Perthshire and Aberdeenshire, Scotland;
McKenna in Ireland and Scotland;
Wilkie in Kincardine and Angus, Scotland

Offline RJ_Paton

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,492
  • Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
    • View Profile
Re: Whats the difference ?
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 17 November 04 18:15 GMT (UK) »
Scotland (Isle of Bute) mid 19th Century ...male 23 female 22

The other case is England (herefordshire)  early to mid 19th century where a male in late 50's early 60's was described as farm servant

Offline Lady Macbeth

  • 1965-2013
  • Deceased † Rest In Peace
  • RootsChat Member
  • ********
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: Whats the difference ?
« Reply #7 on: Friday 31 December 04 10:08 GMT (UK) »
Hi Falkyrn.  Sorry I've taken so long to reply but I wasn't getting notifications of replies to my posts.   Anyway.......

In Scotland, a Farm Servant is just that, someone (mainly female) who reports to the wife of the Tenant Farmer or the Farmer and could be a general helper around the farm or in the house and kitchen itself.  A Farm Labourer was someone who had a recognised skilled trade.  These were mainly ploughmen, where there was a strict hierarchy according to rank and experience (number dependent on size of farm, obviously) or a cattleman or shepherd, who looked after the beasts.  They reported to the Grieve/Foreman who reported to the Farmer.  During the Agricultural Revolution (1770-1810) when rotational crop cultivation was introduced, there was a much higher demand for skilled ploughmen to work the new 'heavy horses' - Clydesdales.  This mainly began in the Angus/Perthshire area (NE Scotland) and spread.  The Ag Labs 'fee-ed' for 6 months or a year and moved around a lot, so it's difficult to keep tabs on them.  You will find children born all over the place.  They basically had to work until they died and ploughmen would often become cattlemen later in life as this was not such an arduous job.

Originally, they ate in the farm kitchen with the farmer, however, towards the end of the C18th the farmer moved them out and they lived in bothies which were basic dormatory cottages - all male.  Again, this begun in NE Scotland and spread.  There was no married accommodation provided so the men were discouraged from marrying.  The workers were confined to the farm so, as I have found, children were often born of unmarried workers on the farm.  Even the girls with these children were discouraged from marrying by their parents, as they were dependent on their wages which, if they married, would go to their husband.  Apparently, after the 1841 census, the kirk (church) was appalled with the number of illegt births to farm workers/ag labs and more married accommodation was provided.  However, they still moved around a lot so, again, it's difficult to keep tabs on them.  They lived in small cottages on the farm - Cotter Houses.

I always believed people didn't travel much in those days but have found my lot moved from Aberdeenshire across the mountains to Angus, then Perthshire and back to Angus again.  Mine were mostly ploughmen.  I have managed to get back to an illegt son born on a farm in Angus in 1797, I believe of a ploughman and female farm worker, however, they don't appear to have married and the father then disappears off the face of the earth.  I have one theory he was conscripted into the army for the Napoleonic Wars.   The son, also a ploughman, was told off by the kirk for 'antinuptial fornication' probably resulting in a child, in 1825 and I can't find a reference to a marriage, although they appear to be husband and wife when they died.

Interestingly, although it was a hard life, I have found the Ag Labs living to ripe old ages (70s, 80s) which was not too common in C18th and C19th so obviously it was a healthier life than my ancestors who lived in the town and worked in the mills, and who died quite young, as did their children.

Hope this gives you a wee bit more info.  Good luck with your research.
Lesley
Gegan, Geoghegan, Gagan, or any variation whatsoever in Ireland (particularly Co Offaly/Kings Co) and Scotland;
Symons and Symon in Angus, Perthshire and Aberdeenshire, Scotland;
McKenna in Ireland and Scotland;
Wilkie in Kincardine and Angus, Scotland

Offline RJ_Paton

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,492
  • Cuimhnichibh air na daoine bho'n d'thainig sibh
    • View Profile
Re: Whats the difference ?
« Reply #8 on: Friday 31 December 04 16:17 GMT (UK) »
Thanks very much it clears up a few things for me