Llangathen Parish Lookup

[Debby]

I am hoping someone has access to the Langathen / Llanfihangen parish registers and may be able to solve a mystery for me.

I recently had a short term access to these records (among others) but not long enough to get all the information I needed and I cannot now get access again for some months - and curiosity is killing me 

I have an ancestor Thomas Dyer who married Ann David on 30 Jun 1809 at Llangathen.  This info was provided for me by a kind person here and I was able to see if for myself on the parish records.

They had (at least) five children
Thomas b1818 (not sure what happened to him)
Rachel b1821 (never married)
Elizabeth b1823 (who married David Davies)
William b1826 (never married)
Isaac b1830 (never married)

I have not yet got confirmed dates on when the children were born but on all the census they are listed under Llangathen and Llanfihangen (mispelt on occasion).

Additionally I found on the parish records a Thomas Dyer born to John Dyer and his wife Jane on 22 Dec 1796.

That was as far as I got before I had to hand back the file but I looked up Family Search and found another Thomas Dyer b5 Jun 1786 whose father was also John at Llanfihangel Cilfargen.

My Thomas Dyer was 55 on the 1841 census indicating a birth year of 1786, his wife Ann David is listed as being 60 making her birth year 1781.  (Depending on their ability to read and write this may be possibly +/- a few years on both accounts.)  From this information it would seem there is a good chance the one at Lanfihangel is actually my ancestor not the one at Llangathen unless for some strange reason John and Jane decided to call two living sons both Thomas but I find this unlikely.

There is of course the possibility that Thomas was christened elsewhere but the areas/towns named by the family on the census are Llangathen, Llandilofawr and Llanfihangel so this seems the most likely location.

So for this part I was wondering if anyone could look up and see if they could find the baptism entry for Thomas born in Llanfihangel in 1786 and also check all three registers for me to see if there were any other Thomas' born about this time and who their parents were.  Thomas appears to have a brother William who was born sometime 1795 and 1806 depending upon which census you look at.  Both Thomas and William were shoemakers and one of Williams children (Cecelia) is living with one of Thomas' children (William) at one stage and is indicated in "relationship" as cousin.  The fact that both men and some of their sons were all shoemakers would suggest this was a family trade so it may be we are looking for a man (John or otherwise) who was a shoe or boot maker.

Their eldest (known) son of Thomas was Thomas aged 23 on the 1841 census making him born in 1818, given Thomas Snr and Ann married in 1809 there were probably other children.

So the 2nd part of my query is if there are any records of any other children of Thomas and Anne.

Thankyou

[bevbee]

Hi Debbie,

My father will be going to the archives in mid January and will look this up for you.

Bev, South Wales. 

[Debby]

Thankyou so much Bev that is greatly appreciated.

My husband and I are hoping to do a trip to the UK in about 5 years time to get copies of the original documents (or photos or whatever they will let us do).   Also to get into some of the local archives and look up other documents to find out a bit more about who our family were.

I must admit it is a right royal pain in the bottom having to rely on microfilm (when you can get them) and internet records but then I should be thankful I have at least that.  I was talking to a lovely lady not long ago who has been doing family history for 30 years now (from Australia) and she was telling me how difficult and expensive it used to be before the internet.  The archive searches, if you have someone else do them are still expensive, which is why that part of my research is limited to Australian ancestors where I can get the records for free through state archives and the national library but the English ones are a bit beyond our economic reach.

Anyway do tell your father I greatly appreciate this and when we get to Wales I shall owe him an ale!!

Thanks
Debby

[welsh lady]

Debby I have checked Llangathen Parish Church Records this is the only Thomas christened between 1778-1812Christened-Thomas Dyer 6 days old,on 22/12/1795.Parents
John Dyer and Jane .Looking at their earlier childrens baptisms Johns occupation is  a Taylor and heres their marriage John Dyer to Jane David in Llangathen 10/12/1782.
Going by the 1841 census of your Thomas hes 55 ages are sometimes rounded off in the 1841 so birth year approx 1781-1786.So the above is not the right one as hes christened at 6 days.
The other one from Family Search Thomas Dyer 5th June 1786 Llanfihangel Cilfargon looks promising but you need to check out the original as thats a member submitted entry not an extracted entry.His Father is John and heres another possible marriage for him John Dyer to Anne Thomas on 27/12/1785 in Llangathen.
Llangathen and Llanfihangel Cilfargen are both Parishes in Llandilo Fawr check out Carmarthenshire Genuki for more info but all are in same area.
Another possibilityy is hes christened not in Llangathen Parish Church but in a non conformist church of the area all this info will be on genuki.
Good Luck
Welsh Lady

[Arranroots]

Hi Debby

Was this information useful to you?

kind regards, Arranroots 

[Debby]

Hi All,

Thanks for your help.  We have come to the conclusion that the one at Llanfihangel is the right one for a couple of reasons.  The main being the Thomas who was christened at Llangathen, as Welsh Lady pointed out, was about 10 years too young and also on (at least) one of the census records the children of Thomas actually put their birth location as Llanfihangel which didn't seem to make sense at the time until I found out this was a church location and near Llangathen.

The issue of being non-conformist is certainly a strong possibility.  Later members of the family were staunch Baptists but at least one of them is known not to have converted to the faith until 1895 at the age of 15.  He was a Davies but his grandmother was  Dyer and we have reason to believe that some of the Dyer males might have been Baptists despite their sister converting to Anglican.

I have found a bit more information out though since.  I have the birth certificate of the daughter of David Davies and Elizabeth which confirmed my suspicions that her maiden name was Dyer.  I also got a death certificate for a Thomas Dyer in 1842 in the Llangathen area which I thought was for Elizabeths father but turned out to be for her brother Thomas who was born in 1818.  He died at Coy-ti which is the cottage/farm they lived in on the 1841 census.  He died of a condition called Phthisis which I found out was another name for tuberculosis.  Like his father Thomas and brothers William and Isaac he was a shoemaker.  The fact he died in the cottage from this condition might also explain why the family deserted the cottage as they would probably have known TB was infectious, through observation not necessarily through scientific understanding.  The death was attended by a David Dyer was probably an older son of Thomas and Anne and the most likely candidate is David Dyer b1814 who was born at Llangathen and who was living at Llandilofawr on the 1851 census with his wife Anne and children.  This David is also a shoemaker like the rest of the men in this family.  There is another David Dyer also living at Llandilofawr in 1851 but he has his birth location as Llandilo and also has the occupation of bricklayer which would be at odds with all the other brothers.

I have found what appears to be the death entry for the wife of Thomas, Anne David nee Dyer in 1848 at Llandilofawr.  The reason I think this is her death is that the cottage was abandoned by the 1851 census.

I cannot find anyone that remotely resembles Thomas snr on the 1851 census with any variations of the spelling of his surname.  I therefore think that he must have died also before 1851 but I have not found a death entry for him yet.

I also found the Thomas who was born in 1795 to John Dyer and Jane David.  He married a woman called Priscilla and can be found on the census.

Deb