So what would you do?

[Certificate Man]

What was the source of the date of birth on the death cert ?   And the place of birth ? 

It's exact, so someone must have known something or thought they did.  If they didn't, it is permissable to put "about 1914" and as broad as England if that's all that's known.

Perhaps she was born elsewhere.  There are no Lancashire Annie Barnes in Sept Q 1914 and on;ly two in Dec  Stockport and Haslingden

If I were completely stuck, I'd get the death cert for starters.

Finally do the witnesses on the death cert offer you anything ?

Good Luck

Antony

[Mair]

I thought being "local" may give me an idea of what and where to look - huh think again.

I have family ties to the areas you search but Moss Side was a bit off my usual track - but here's what I haven't found -  Princess Street.... there is Princess Road which is the main A road through the area.  Perhaps the address should have read Road and not Street.

I have had a trawl through the BMD's et al for the period and no joy either.  There are about 15 Annie's born in and around Lancashire and only one I could find registered in Manchester.  From 1912 you at least have a chance of matching up mother's maiden names but before that its very difficult.  For the maiden names of "Annie"s' I found only two James Barnes matched.  One married in Cardiff in 1916  - oooer not likely and another was a James Edgar Barnes who married an Emma Shaw in Rochdale in the March quarter of 1908. (V8e p 71)  An Annie Barnes was registered in Prestwich in June 1915 (8d p769) whose mothers maiden name was Shaw- again not tidy.

Back in Rochdale you have Annie Barnes born in Sept 1915 whose mother's maiden name was Brierley but I can't find a Brierley married to a James Barnes on the BMD from 1912 or Free BMD (for a page match) prior to 1912.  But that of course does not mean that there is not one somewhere!

In Manchester in Sept 1915 (v 8d p279) Annie Barnes is registered with a mother's maiden name of Haslam - again no James Barnes married a Haslam that I can see.

Hitting a wall like this I would now go on and check out the address like you were doing and check out the witnesses from the marriage certificate.  You could also try and track down the actual marriage entry and see if there has been a transcription error.  Marriage cert info is provided by the persons themselves.  Death certificate information can be estimates but that date of birth appears to be a definitive.  The informant will be listed so where did the info come from as Certificate Man noted.

Jude

[liverpool annie]

Hi Jude !

I found the Annie Barnes ( Haslam ) in Manchester too ........ but couldn't find the marriage !!

Back to the drawing board !!

We'll get there Andy and Ange !! 

Annie 

[lostnconfused]

Welcome to my nightmare!!!

Seriously though thanks for trying.

The problem stems from the lack of definitive information, i was sure we werent alone in  this problem. But to be honest i thought there would  be a way round it, somehow.

I suppose the long wait for the next census release offers some hope.......shall i join the queue now?

Andy and Ange

[Certificate Man]

I still think the death cert is the way forward.

It should give you a place of birth.

Even if the date is wrong; if you know where she was born then you have a start.  It should also give her maiden name.   Whilst you think it's Barnes,  I suspect that you think it might not be.

Surely it's worth a shot.

Antony

[lostnconfused]

We're now in the position of doubting everything that was handed down to us from relatives.

It's a bit of a tough situation as we dont feel that we can turn round and say 'hey your mam wasnt telling you the truth'.

There does seem to be an underlying secrecy that kept people at arms length, so to speak. My mam for example says that 'Annie was a bit queer when it came to family, i never met anyone. NOt even at my wedding'

I was quite young when she died so never really got to the question asking stage, thats a shame as i might know more first hand.

The search continues........

[Anthony Morris]

Annie told me she was born in Rochdale. She also said she had a sister and a brother.
We all did as your nana requested regarding her family....dont ask. So we as good children did just that.
She worked for a time on oxford Road Manchester where she met Ivan. Annie was not the type you pushed a question with but it does seem strange that Ivans side of the family dont {or wont} seem to know much. Maybe asking Judy in Lydbrook will lead a clue as Fred was close to my dad before his death. The only other family member who dug into our history was Ivan and his wife still retains those records I believe.
Good luck Andy but if Annie wanted it buried she would have done a good job about it.....

[suey]

I'm sorry I can't help with this.  I can say however that I appreciate your frustration and possible anger at your grandmother.
To call her "lying and deceitful" is a bit strong

if Annie wanted it buried she would have done a good job about it.....

My own Mother would not speak about her family except to say that she was orphaned, brought up in a children's home and that she had a brother.  We have been lucky in that we have managed to uncover a great deal about Mum's life from her birth to the 2nd WW, and we now know some of the reasons why she didn't want to talk!

I'm sure you're gran had her reasons, don't be too hard on her, remember that their generation saw things very differently to the way we see things today  
Good luck with your search.

Suey

[dawnsh]

Hi Anthony

Welcome to Rootschat 

Lostnconfused hasn't been online here since 2010 but as long as their email address hasn't changed they should receive email notifications that we have posted and hopefully come back soon.

Dawn