1841/51 lookup please William Davies

[MJP]

Oh - just spotted them too Welsh Lady. 

Sorry clogdancer - I think I had my generations mixed up.  And I had the wrong 1881 census - there is a William Davies b. Llangynog of the same age in the 1881 Wales.  But he is single.   

MJP

[MJP]

There is a possible marriage in 1861:

William Davies
on same page: Jennet Powell
Merthyr Tydfil (which includes Aberdare)
Jun Qtr 1861
11a 497

MJP

[welsh lady]

Yes what i would suggest is send for Marias birth cert this will give you Mothers maiden name .Then send for the marriage cert.MJPS found a possible above if the the mothers  maiden name turns out to be Powell.There are to many William Davies in 1851 census  in Llanelly born 1835-1838 to be sure you have the right one you need the fathers name off the marriage cert.
Good Luck
Welsh Lady

[clogdancer]

Welsh Lady & MJP, thank you so much for your help so far.
Could you explain though, why the 1881 census should show William as born in Slanganob (sic) Carmarthenshire, whilst 1861 & 71 show Llenelli?

[MJP]

Hi clogdancer,

There are many reasons why people's place of birth varies from census to census - this is not uncommon.  The census enumerator would not likely speak to every member of the family - the information would be provided by one person on behalf of the whole household.  So, the information given is only as accurate as the informant.  Sometimes it was even a neighbour who answered if the family was not at home, so in rare cases the ages and birthplaces can sometimes just be a "best guess".  Even a couple's own children may not have been completely sure of their parents' place of birth.  People also sometimes gave the place that they first remember living and growing up, which is not neccesarily the same as their place of birth. 

It is a bit annoying because it makes them a bit harder to trace, but what can you do?    Generally I would start with the location they give the most often and then work from there. 

Hope this helps!

MJP

[clogdancer]

I've now got Maria's Birth cert, showing Jennett Harris as mother.
Also Marriage certificate, which shows coal miner Daniel Davies (deceased) as father of William and Howell Harris (deceased) as father of Jennet.
I've got a short term sub to Ancestry so checked census's.
Harris line traces OK, but problem with Davies's
Nothing found for 1871
1861 shows William Jennet & baby Margaret in Aberdare.
1851 shows William with mother Mary in Llangunnock
1841 also shows William and Mary in Llangunnock.
HOWEVER, the original image 1841 also shows David Davies age 45 and Thomas Davies age 5 at the same address.
My best guess is that Daniel died before 1841 and David is his bro.
I obviously need to get Williams birth certificate to confirm Mary as mother.
BUT can anyone explain why:
1841 census index shows Mary & William, but not David & Thomas?
The image shows Mary age 35 and William age 9, whilst index shows dob's as 1801 and 1839 (ie age abt 40 & 2, which would match later data better)?
The 1851 census index shows Mary age 54, whilst original shows 50?
I can understand errors made transcribing from the original to the index, but how could a "correction" be made to show data more accurately than the original - or would it just be luck ??
Also, the 1881 England census shows William Davies born in "Slanganob" Carmarthenshire.
I'd assumed this was an error in transcribing from the original, and should be Llan-y-nog or Llangunnock, but I see from the original it's clearly written as Slanganob.
Can any Welsh expert offer any possible anternatives in Carmarthenshire?

[welsh lady]

Hiya Again Williams birthplace in 1861 and 1871 is Llanelly.Carms
So heres another possible
1851 Twyn,Llanelly,Carms
H0107 Piece 2468 Folio 440 Page 32

Daniel Davies,Head,51,Sieve? Maker,St Peters Carm
Mary Davies,Wife,38,St Peters,Carm
David Davies,30,St Peters,Carm
John Davies,Son,17,St Peters,Carm
William Davies,13,Llanelly,Carm
Daniel Davies,Son,10,Llanelly
Isaac Davies,Son,6,Llanelly
John Davies,Son,1,Llanelly

Whats address for William on marriage cert?

Welsh Lady

[osprey]

On the 1841 census, there are 2 lots of Mary & Williams on the same page. The Mary at Ty Newydd is 35 and her William is 9 with other 2. The Mary at Penllainygog is 40 and William 2.
Also appears to be Anne Richards 1 in same household but not same family!
H0107/1382/20 folio 8 pg 8 line 13.

As for 1881, that might have been the first time the enumerator heard Welsh and wrote what he heard. Or, if he was copying from a householder's return, he wrote what he thought it said. Unlikely he had any knowledge of Welsh place names.

Can't explain the 1851 transcription though.
 

[clogdancer]

osprey, thanks for your input.
I'm left wondering what was the method of collecting census information?
Did the enumerator call at peoples houses, or did they leave forms for the householders to fill in?
I can't see how Llangunnock or Llanynog can get to Slanganob other than by misreading the written word.
Or was it dependant upon the area and the year of census?