irvines/ mains of drum,new deer

[connor]

Yes I am trying to piece the rest of the tree together.

I am stuck with Barbara Richesdon  (1745-1812) who married William Irvine who was born 1740-1805,
They were both in New Deer.
I cannot find any more info on there parents.

many Thanks
Amanda

[tracysievewright]

im a bit new to this and apologies as I realise this is a very old thread so perhaps obsolete.  Im from Elgin, Moray, have moved to Perth WA and my mother in law is very into geneology.  Her great great grandfather was William Irvine from Mains of Drum.  When I went to New Deer today, I found 2 headstones, one refering to a William Irvine  who died 1854 aged 48, wife Margaret Murrison died 1887 aged 79.

however the neighbouring stone has a William Irvine, did 1896 aged 66, wife Agness Hay Mitchell died 1926 aged 79. 

were there 2 families living at mains of drum or were these cousins in some way?  I didn't get to do much looking around but might go back to search for other Irvines!

also her great grandfather who emigrated was William Irvine Bruce.  Any idea where the Bruce might have come from?

[flst]

Hello & welcome to rootschat. It appears that the William Irvine who died in 1898 was a son of William & Margaret (nee Murison) Irvine, and therefore a brother of John.
I wonder if William Irvine Bruce was illegitimate and that Bruce was his mother's surname. It was very common for children to have their father's surname as a middle name.
Regards,
flst
 

[anne_p]

Flst and Tracy
I can fill you in on a little about William Irvine Bruce bc 1871 who emigrated to Australia in 1889.

Can I assume this is the man that Tracy is referring to?

"also her great grandfather who emigrated was William Irvine Bruce.  Any idea where the Bruce might have come from?"


He does not exactly form part of my family tree but, he  is related by marriage and he does form part of the wider story.

I think he may have been illegitimate, possibly born to Margaret Irvine, a daughter of John Irvine and Margaret Rankin of New Deer.

At 1881, aged 10yrs, he is living in New Deer with a family called Smith.
His grandmother Margaret Irvine Ms Rankin is also in the household
The head of house, William Smith was the brother of my husbands gg grandfather, and was married to Mary Chivas Irvine ( also dau of John Irvine and Margaret Rankin).

Mary C  Smith Ms Irvine died in 1888, and her husband  William Smith emigrated to Australia shortly afterwards.
 William Irvine Bruce went to Australia with William Smith ( his uncle by marriage)

In 1890, William Smith's father ( my husbands ggg grandfather, aged 71yrs) arrived in OZ, together with the children born to the Smith/Irvine marriage, his unmarried daughter and another of his own grandsons


 William Smith and his wider family remained in Victoria
 William Irvine Bruce and the younger nephew of William Smith (who arrived with his grandfather in 1890) both seem to have made their way to WA.

[tracysievewright]

Absolutely fantastic! Going for a look around new deer and new pitsligo on Monday so now I know I'm on the right track!

[anne_p]

I think so Tracy but, how does William Irvine Bruce relate to the Irvine family on your post.

Neither his father or grandfather was called William Irvine?
I understand his mother was Margaret Gordon Irvine, daughter of John Irvine and Margaret Rankin

Edit:
Your opening post states that William Irvine Bruce was the great grandfather of your mother in law.
He was born out of wedlock on 12 Mar 1871 with no father's name provided and no RCE to add a father?
His birth name was William Irvine.

Here he is at the home of his mother's aunt,.
53 Huntly St, Old Machar, the same address as his birth

Janes Ranken   64
Margaret Irvine   28   (Daughter of John Irvine and Margaret Rankin)
****William Irvine   1 Mo (Son of Margaret Irvine)
William Hogg   22
Mary Duncan   67

1881 in New Deer
   
Name   Age
William Smith   26
Mary Smith   29  (This is Mary C Irvine dau of John Irvine and Margaret Rankin)
Edward Smith   3
William Smith   1
Margaret Irvine   69  This is Margaret Rankin
Ann Irvine   13
****William Bruce   10... This is William Irvine who now uses the name of Bruce

[tracysievewright]

I'll have to contact my mother in law in australia, I've been to Huntly street as I knew he was born there, do you know what happened to his mother as she isn't in the house with him in 1881.  I'm sure she's worked it back to mains of drum but I haven't been able to contact her by email since we arrived so I don't have details. I'd like to be able to back another few generations from john and find the burial sites etc

[anne_p]

I haven't undertaken any real research into the wider Irvine family.
My own research follows the children from the Smith/Irvine marriage.

However, a few years ago I was in contact with someone who was  trying to establish where  William Irvine Bruce came from and who he went to OZ with
I had been looking at the Smith family, and knew that I was able to join the dots for this tree owner which allowed her to work further back on the Irvine family


Since then, I can see loads of trees where the owner seems to descend from William Irvine Bruce.
His mother was called Margaret Gordon Irvine, she married in London 1888 and died there in 1905

1901 Newington, London
:Abraham Rhodes   69 B Middlesex
Margaret G Rhodes   57 Wife B Scotland.

The  1888 marriage cert does say that father of Margaret Gordon Irvine was a farmer called John Irvine

Edit:
I do not know how much research that your MIL has done on her own and how much, if any, was copied from other people.
I have seen quite a few trees which name a father for William I Bruce, but no one seems to provided any source for this?
No father was named on his birth cert, yet no one has annotated their tree to show that his birth name was William Irvine?


He seems to have been closely connected to John Morrison Smith, the younger nephew of William Smith.
JM Smith was also born out of wedlock but a paternity case was raised and confirmed that his father was a man called Alexander Morrison who had been working in the Banffshire area prior to his birth.
The child's mother died soon after his birth.

I am at a loss to figure out how anyone could positively identify Alexander Morrison  from the scant info provided on the RCE attached to the child's birth, yet so many trees have a death date for him?
Where did that come from? Can anyone prove this?
It goes to show that any amount of information, accurate or otherwise can pass from one tree to another yet no one has  actually  provided any sources

[tracysievewright]

I have a feeling my MIL is one of those people! I've looked at the tes she's given me and the dates on her family tree and none of them match what are on the headstones as death dates in new deer. One of the head stones that is also written up I the Aberdeenshire and North East scotland family history page has a William Irvine, died 17th feb 1896 and on the stone lists 5 children who all passed, all from Mains of Drum, but I can't find them on her tree.  They must be somehow connected but the dates and names just don't match.

Like I say I'm very new to this, she's given me her details to login so need to go through it and find out how (if) the irvines in new deer cemetery link to her family. If they didn't all call their children William or john it would help!