Alexander alias Mansell

[cire]

I have been looking at a Mansell family for a friend. They lived around Preston on Stour which was in Gloucestershire but now in Warwickshire. I found an early reference to the family which gave the name as Alexander alias Mansell and I have found the name combination in Charlton Kings in Gloucestershire. Does anyone know how te Alias originated? It  carried on for several generations, which suggests that it was not because of illegitimacy.

Eric

[Eveline Clarke]

Hi Cire

My husband is descended from the Alexander Mauncel families of Charlton Kings.   When Bernard Cartwright married  Elizabeth Alexander Alias Mauncel in 1547(Mansell).   We thought at first it might be illegitimacy but have since found evidence that it was not.

On looking at the Gloucester visitations, it shows that both the Mauncel and (Alexandeer) Alysaunder families started at Frampton Mansell in the 14th century.

We know that an Alysaunder deeded some land to a Mauncel in the 14th century and believe (but not proven) that this was because he was his son in law.   We believe that this is where the "alias" came into being.   Descendants of this family have since called themselves by both or either name.

We have another "alias" in the same branch of the family Bloxham alias Ingles or sometimes Ingles alias Bloxham, however, we have not found the link in this case.

Sir Richard Whittington 4 times mayor of London is also descended from this Frampton Mansell family.

Eveline

[cire]

Hi Eveline
Thanks for your reply. I must admit you have caught me out and at the moment I have little idea where my notes on the Alexander/Mansell families are!!!!! I suspect they are up in our loft with a lot more clutter.

As I said in my request I was doing the research for a lady who had helprd me a lot with a branch of our family. Her Mansell family were in the Atherstone on Stour area. There is a strip of land which used to be in Gloucestershire but is now in Warwickshire which includes Atherstone and Preston on Stour. There is quite a bit on the Mansell family in  the Shakespear center in Stratford  and it was there that I found a reference to the alias. There were also a couple of wills from the 1600s which mentioned a brother or sister in Charlton Kings. I passed the information on to the lady and haven't really thought about the family since early last year.

I agree with you that the alias is not due to illegitimacy, as it carried on for several generations. My thoughts were that it was due to some condition off an inheritance.

I have seen references to the Bloxham alias Inglis family in Gloucestershire but have not been able to connect them to my own. "My " Bloxhams are from the Avon Dassett/Burton Dassett area in south Warwickshire. They first appear in the parish records about the time of the Civil War. The battle of Edge Hill was fought in their "back garden". There are also references to  Bloxhams from Gloucestershire, Aston sub Edge etc.  in the Shakespear
Centre.

Next time I am in the roof I will have a look for the notes!!

Regards

Eric

[Eveline Clarke]

Hi Eric

Thank you for replying.

Regarding your Bloxhams.   I had a note somewhere that suggested that my Bloxhams originated in South Warwickshire and moved to Mickleton in Gloucester.   Unfortunately, due to a computer crash (and like an idiot I had not saved anything for some months), I lost the note and cannot remember who or where it came from.

My Ingles start in Mickleton in around 1460 or at least we think that John Ingles was born around that time but to be honest we are not sure where he was born.     He was living in Mickleton when he died and left a will stating that his estate was to be shared amongst his 8 children, but no names to the children apart from his son Thomas born c 1890 not sure where, it could have been Mickleton or he might have been born before John Ingles moved to Mickleton.   Thomas moved to Aston Subedge where he was living with his wife Alice.     Again there is a will which mentions Alice and their children, but no date of marriage.    It is about this time that the Bloxham Ingles seem to come into being as in his son Ralph's will (my husband's ancestor), he calls himself Ralph Blocksome.      We (a cousin and I) thought that if the Bloxham names doesn't go back further than this, maybe Thomas married an Alice Bloxham and that as you say they changed their name because of the inheritance.

In either case the Bloxham/Ingles seems to have been interchangeable for all the children for the next couple of generations, then there is a definite separation with part of the family (my husband's part) keeping the name Bloxham and the other half being Ingles.

The family must have been fairly well off as most of them left wills.

To tie all this in with the Alexander Mauncels.

Going down the Bloxham family tree we come to a John Bloxham born 1574 died 1649, John Bloxham married an Alice Cartwright who was the daughter of Bernard Cartwright and Christian Slycer.     Barnard is the son of William Cartwright and Elizabeth Alexander alias Mauncel of Charlton Kings.     As I said, they must have been quite well off as of his sons (Timothy) married Penelope Segar who was the daughter of Sir William Segar who was Garter King at Arms from 1604 to 1606 and when he retired he was given a pension of £200 per year- which was a lot of money in those days.

If we go back a little further according to Biglands and the Heralds visitations.  The Alexanders and Mauncels were at Frampton Mansell (probably named after them).

Most of what I have has been "proven" by wills, heralds visitations and Biglands as well as trips to Gloucester family history centre to look at the parish records.

I think what I am saying is that if you have an Alice Bloxham who was born c 1500 give or take 10 years either way and you are not sure who she married, it could be that she married Thomas Ingles and moved just over the border to Aston Subedge.   What we also have to remember is that the county boundaries were much different years ago.    Alice was buried 28th June 1557 at Aston Subedge just 5 months after her husband.         As I said, it is her children who took the name Bloxham.

Not sure if the above helps or hinders your Bloxhams, it might just muddy the waters.  However, I would be interested in knowing if you have an Alice Bloxham about that time, it might help clear up a mystery.

Eveline

[cire]

Hi Eveline
Thanks for the message.
The wills I mentioned are those of John Maunsell alias Alexander, Preston on Stour 1601 and his wife Margaret Mansell, Preston on Stour 1605. One of them mentioned a relative in Charlton Kings, so if you have lost a John in the mid 1500s that's where he was!. There was also a ref in a "views of frankpledge" for Preston where one of the family, and I can't remember which, was admonished for washing hemp in the stream used for drinking water. These are at the Shakespear Centre Library and Archive in Stratford on Avon. When I was looking at this family I couldn't make a connection to anyone in Charlton Kings.

I was interested in your part about the Bloxhams. I did look at the Gloucester Bloxhams briefly a while ago but couldn't make a connection to mine in Burton Dassett. As I said I can get back to Samuel in the mid 1600s. There are 2 Bloxham families , one in Burton Dassett and one in Avon Dassett before that but no connecting link to Samuel. This is partly due to the illegibility of the Parish registers and partly because of the hiatus of the Civil War and the Commonwealth period. I think that modern techniques should be able to decipher some of the old registers. So I have no definite connection with any Bloxham families before that.

There are two lots of Bloxhams in Warwickshire, those in the Dassetts and another line which comes from North Oxfordshire, which is where the town of Bloxham is, and moved into Warwickshire through the Tysoe area. There is also a line in Northamptonshire and up into Leicester but I haven't followed that, except for some of"my Bloxham" family which were in Chacombe for a while. The Dassett area is right where Oxfordshire, Warwickshire and Northamptonshire join. I have one Bloxham, born in Burton Dassett in Warwick, married in Cropredy in Oxfordshire and had the first child in Chacombe, and he would have needed to walk no more than 8 miles between the three places. The book "Lark Rise to Candleford" is set in that area in the later 1800s.

I will keep a look out for other Alice Bloxhams besides my grand daughter.

regards
Eric

[Eveline Clarke]

Hi Eric

Thanks for replying.   

I agree that it all gets muddled the further back you go, mainly because of the civil war and even if records weren't destroyed then, you go back further and come to Henry and his dissolution of the monastrys.

I think probably to get as far back as I did was almost a miracle, thanks to my husbands ancestors leaving plenty of Wills.  Plus the fact that the Alexander Mauncels were both listed in the Heralds visitations of Gloucester.

Plus Mauncels are related to Dick Whittington through his mother Joan Mauncel whose first marriage was to the Berkeley family and naturally, everyone wants to know the true story of Dicks rise to riches (although he was a second son, I cannot believe he was penniless).

It is interesting that there may be Mauncels related to my family in Preston on Stour.   I must try to see if I can find copies of those wills.     I do have a John Alexander alias Mauncel born 1523 in Charlton Kings.   He is the brother of Bill's 10x Great Grandmother and I haven't managed to trace a marriage for him.  Maybe he is the one at Preston on Stour who died in 1601.

I love the name Alice, actually it was my mothers and is also my second christian name.   I bet your granddaughter is the apple of your eye.   I know my Hannay is an absolute poppet and I wouldn't change her for the world.

Regards

Eveline

[Gregor Hounds]

Hi
I have a small piece of Bloxham history.

From an early pedigree in the possession of my family I quote " Anthony Mogridge, vicar of Himbledon, co. Worcester. Nat. 1687; ob. 8 Feb. 1766. Mar. Mary only daughter and heiress of Francis Kings of Naunton Court, Kempsey, By Anne, dau. of Thomas Anthony Bloxham, lord of the manor of Aston Subege and of Mickleton, co. Gloucester. She was born 21 July , 1718; mar 24 Aug. 1738; ob. 10 July, 1795. Buried in Severn Stoke Church, and by her he had issue-

 

(1) John Mogridge, sometime vicar of Avenbury, then vicar of Pershore .................."

 

Thomas Anthony Bloxham is my 7xgreat grandfather.


I don't know whether this helps.

Regards

George

[Eveline Clarke]

Hi George

I think you must be related to my husband as he is related to the Bloxhams of Aston Subedge but he joins the Aston Subedge crowd a bit further up the family tree from your Thomas.   

Thomas Bloxham born 1624 at Aston Subedge who married Joan Phipps in 1655 in Chipping Camden is my husband's 7x Great Grandfather through his son John Bloxham who died in Ashchurch in 1729.

His father John was born at Aston Subedge but died at Aston Carrant.  I have a transcript of this John's non-cupative will.  As well as transcipts from John's father Ralph Bloxham and grandfather Thomas Ingulls' wills, both from Aston Subedge, plus John Yngules of the paryshe of Mykyelton.

As to what you sent me, every little snippet helps.   I would be interested in hearing more about your side of the family and perhaps we can exchange notes and maybe between us get even further back.

My e.mail address is Moderator comment: email removed - please use the Pm system to prevent spamming and other abuses.
Regards

Eveline

[cire]

Hello Eveline and George
Thanks for the reply. I have searched in vain for a connection between my Bloxhams who were in the Burton Dassett area from the mid 1600s and those from Gloucestershire. It appears that separate people or families moved from the town of Bloxham to all points of the compass across the midlands.
Neither have I found the connection between the Alexander alias Mansells in Gloucestershire and Atherston on Stour.

Keep searching

Eric