Clive/Clark Conundrum - Help!

[Maggiemitch1]

Can anyone help?

I have a Joan Clive c1880 in Inch Wigtownshire, but can find no record of her birth.

Now this is where it starts to get really complicated, Her mother Agnes c1858 claims Joan's father was a James Clive, but I can find no marriage record for this.

On Agnes's death certificate it names her father as an Anthony Clark and her mother's name is blank, I can find no birth record for Agnes with the Clark surname?

Which leads me to believe that Agnes was possibly born out of wedlock, but as I do not have her mothers name my search has hit a brick wall.

Agnes had 4 children, these were Joan c1880, William 1882, Alex 1888 and George 1890. Agnes, William and George all died in Ayr.

If someone out there has links to any of these people or has any suggestions on how I can solve this mystery I would be most grateful for any info you could provide.

Regards
Maggie

[ADP]

Hi Maggie,

Joanna Clave, born Inch in 1879 must be worth looking at. This one is probably the Joeann Cleave in Inch in the 1881 census in her grandparent's house with her mother and a few others (including some siblings? or cousins?).

ADP

[MonicaL]

Hi Maggie

I think relationships and family names might have got a bit mixed up!

This is the 1881 Census entry that ADP is referring to:

Antony Cleave, 51, widower, b. Stonykirk
Agnes, daugh, 26, unmarried, general serv, b. Old Luce
William, son, 22, agr. lab., b. Inch
Peter, son, 19, agr. lab., b. Inch
James, grandson, 8, b. b. Leswalt
Archibald, grandson, 4, b. Old Luce
Joeann, granddaughter, 1, b. Inch

Address: Beoch Farm Cottage No 3, Inch


This looks like the same family in 1861:

Anthony Cleave    38, ploughman, b. Stonykirk
Jane Cleave    40, b. Glenluce
James Cleave    19
Peter Cleave    17
Jane Cleave    15
Mary Cleave    13
David Cleave    11
Elizabeth Cleave 9
Agnes Cleave    6
Helen Cleave    4
William Cleave    2
Hannah Ross    5 Mo, boarder

Address: Cottage On Beoch, Inch


Agnes looks to have been born in 1854 not 1858. This looks like her birth entry on IGI and includes mother's maiden name (Jane TEMPLETON), also some of the siblings:

1. PETER CLAVE  Birth: 26 JAN 1862 Inch, Wigtown, Scotland
2. HELEN CLAVE Birth: 09 OCT 1856 Inch, Wigtown, Scotland
3. ANDREW CLAVE Birth: 26 JAN 1862 Inch, Wigtown, Scotland
4. WILLIAM CLAVE Birth: 28 DEC 1858 Inch, Wigtown, Scotland
5. AGNES CLAVE Christening: 08 SEP 1854 Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland
6. DAVID CLAVE Christening: 25 MAR 1850 Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland
7. ELIZABETH CLAVE Christening: 02 AUG 1852 Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland
8. PETER CLAVE Christening: 08 NOV 1843 Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland
9. JANE CLAVE Christening: 04 NOV 1845 Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland
10. MARIANNE CLAVE Christening: 04 APR 1848 Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland

Regards.

Monica 

[MonicaL]

Agnes's parents' marriage entry on IGI, an actual OPR extract:

ANTHONY CLAVE  Marriages: Spouse: JEAN TEMPLETON    
Marriage:  03 JUL 1841  Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland

It looks like mother Jane died shortly after the birth of the twins, Peter and Andrew, in 1862. Likely death entry for her on SP:

1862   CLAVE   JANE       TEMPLETON   U   INCH   /WIGTOWN   886/00 0009

Regards.

Monica

[MonicaL]

Agnes and her 3 young children in the 1891 Census:

Agnes Clive    36, farm servant, b. Glenluce
Joan Clive    11, b. Inch
Alex Clive    2, b. Inch
George Clive    7 Mo, b. Leswalt

Address: Cothouse No 4, Kirkcolm

Monica 

Added:

Son William is staying with his Uncle William:

William Clive    8, nephew, b. Inch
Sarah Clive    28, b. Keir, Dumfriesshire
William Clive    31, agr. lab., b. Inch
James Clive    6, son, b. Inch
Robert Fingland 20, brother in law, b. Whithorn

Address:  Kilfillan Cot House, Old Luce

[Maggiemitch1]

Many Many Thanks for all those leads everyone, this should now help to knock a few holes in the brick wall - excellent, your wee gems x

[uncle024]

Agnes had 4 children, these were Joan c1880, William 1882, Alex 1888 and George 1890. Agnes, William and George all died in Ayr.

Maggie, You might like to know that your William Clive b1882 who was staying with his Uncle William, that his Aunt Sarah was Sarah Beck FINGLAND 1863-1937 daughter of James FINGLAND & Margaret BRYSON. can provide more details if of interest.