Sheffield couple - where are they? Please help!

[mich b]

A marriage certificate has arrived this morning for my 4xgreat aunt and I've searched the records on ancestry and familysearch (I'm not the best searcher though) and I can't find any trace of them. I've found their marriage on freebmd.

They are: Sophia PINDER (nee BINI) b.abt 1845
                     Albert Lucas [PINDER  b abt 1846/b]

They were married at St Maries RC Church in Sheffield. His occupation is listed as a Tile Cutter (it could be something else, may be pile or file cutter?) Prior to their marriage they lived next door to each other on Canning St. (46 & 45)

Sophia's dad my 3xgreat grandad is on her marriage cert as Figure Maker (deceased). Albert has no father listed. Does anyone know why this might be?

I would appreciate any information at all on this couple or any suggestions why I am unable to find them.

Thank you.

Michelle 

[Tati]

Hi Michelle,

My bet is on File Cutter for the occupation.

If Albert hasn't got a father listed then he's likely to have been illegitimate.

When did the marriage take place and what was Sophia's father's name?

Tanja 

[mich b]

Wow Tati that was quick,

Sophia's dad was Giovanni BINI (often misspelt) and the marriage took place 19th May 1872

Wouldn't Albert have given his fathers name even if he was illegitimate?

Thanks for any help.

Mich

[MJP]

Hi Mich,

It is common for illegitimate children to have no father on a marriage certificate.  Most likely he did not know who is father was.  Sometimes people will put a stepfathers name, if their mother married and they consider this man to be the equivalent of their "father".  Sometimes people, especially women, will make up a father, often using the first name of an uncle or other close relative, to hide the fact that they were illegitimately born.  Knowing he was likely illegitimate could help you find him in previous census records.  He could be hiding under a different last name if his mother married and he has his stepfather's surname in the census.

Anyway, for a start, here is Sophia (I think) in 1871, before her marriage.  Sorry if you already have this...

1871
RG10/4678/37/18
5 Canning St, Sheffield
A G Binn, Head, 27, Telegraph Clerk, Wolverhampton Staffordshire
Austin Binn, Brother, 19, Plaster Figure Manufr, Sheffield Yorkshire
Caroline Binn, Sister, 32, no employment, Manchester Lancashire, Lame not from birth
Sophia Binn, Sister, 26, House duties, Sheffield Yorkshire
William Binn, Nephew, 3, School Boy, " "

MJP

[MJP]

Just to clarify Michelle - are you looking for them in the census before or after their marriage, or both?  Do you have then in any census?

MJP

[MJP]

Here she is in 1891, still at 5 Canning Street

RG12/3815/100/17
5 Canning St, Sheffield
Sophia Pinder, Head, Widow, 45(?), Sheffield
Albert G, Son, 18(?), Silver Finisher, Sheffield
Arthur, Son, 10, Scholar, Sheffield
Thomas Horton, Lodger, 43, Rearea soilari (??), Sheffield

I will try to find 5 Canning St in 1881 to see who is there.  I can't find her on the name index in 1881...

MJP

[Tati]

I now have a feeling we are looking for them afterwards.

There is a possible Sophia Pinder born ca. 1845 Sheffield on the 1891 and 1901 - 2 children, Albert G Sheffield ca. 1873 and Arthur Sheffield ca. 1881.

Just can't spot them in 1881, or even see the children's births 

HUH  - Sorry for echo, my message took ages to load   

[MJP]

AHA! She is hiding as Mary in 1881.

RG11/4643/57/23
5 Canning Street, Sheffield
Mary Pinder, Head, Widow, 36, Sheffield
William, Son, 13, Warehouse Apprentice, Sheffield
Arthur G, Son, 8, Scholar, Sheffield
Elizabeth Schardel, Boarder, 19, Servant Domestic, Barnsley Sheffield

So.... it seems that 3-year-old William, the nephew, in 1871 is Sophia's illegitimate son.  

MJP

[Tati]

Well done, MJP 

Birth Albert George Pinder Mar 1873 Sheffield 9c 356
birth Arthur Pinder Dec 1880 Sheffield 9c 388