Robert Welsh Bisset Russell

['Trish']

I am trying to find some information on a Robert Welsh Bissett Russell who apparently was a Irish Guard around 1924-1935.  I am told he was the Regimental Sergeant major.  His wife Margaret Russell nee Hamilton worked at Kilkenny Castle for a Ormsby Hamilton who I believe was the owner, so the family story goes.  The children attended Marriners Church School, Robert, Hubert, William & Ellen. 
Robert died in Glasgow around 1934.  Any help would be most appreciated in the search for Robert's Irish Guard's records & Margaret's employment record for Kilkenny Castle.  Thanks Pauline

[Christopher]

Hello Pauline,

I found the information below on Curious Fox. It seems a peculiar coincidence to me that there are two guys named Robert Welsh Bissett Russell who both married a Margaret Hamilton. 

Family - Shettleston
Robert Welsh Bissett Russell married Margaret Shirley Hamilton on 11th December 1911 At Shettleston. His occupation was a Railway Goods Guard. Margaret a Domestic Servant. Am looking for his death certificate, sometime between 1934/5. Also his birth at Dumfries, & Margarets at Motherwell. Parents names seem to change on Wedding certificate & Roberts supposed death certificate. Also hunting children of this couple.

Chris

['Trish']

I hope that someone might beable to help me.  I did find Robert Welsh Bissett Russell with his mother & Grandmother on Census.
As I have said before, he worked as a railway guard, but the story goes that he went to Dublin in 1924 - where he was in the Irish Guards - Regimental Sergeant Major. The family lived at Dun laoghair. Mother has given me the name of the street they lived in & the school they attended.  Robert returned to Scotland in 1934. (dates are abit guess work as his daughter isnt very forthcoming) He died in Glasgow around 1934, the family were still in Ireland at that time, so had to return to Glasgow.  Margaret (Hamilton) Russell worked at Kilkenny Castle the owner (or Manager) was a Mr Ormsby(??) Hamilton (who was wheelchair bound) apparently so daughter says no relation. Many years ago, daughter filled in a family tree book for grandson & put that Ormsby Hamilton was the great grandmother (Has changed sex!). I know this is not so now, Catherine was the Great Grandmother.  As you can probably guess from the nature of this message I am very suspicious about all of this, but we have so little to go on, as each time we talk to my mother the story alters slightly both my sister & I have spoken to her on different occasions & as I said the story alters.  I think she knows more than she is letting on but wont tell us! 
As her story of working in Boswell circus as a contortionist doesnt quite ring true.  The circus she names runs in South africa not the UK!  So I wonder if the Boswell Circus story is true?  All I have is a Professor Popinjei (unsure of spelling) taught her to be a contortionist.   Both my sister & I would be grateful for any assistance with this story.
Funny thing is when questioning my mother her comment is normally, 'oh no not that again' as though there is something to hide. Regards Pauline

[ar42811]

The RWBR saga Janet Bisset (never married)1831-1895 had two sons Joseph Bisset B::1867 Dumfries -D:1939 Govan age 78. As Joseph Russell.// The second son was Robert Welsh Bissett  B: 1877 Troqueer (Dumfries) D: 1951 age 81 as Robert Welch Bissett.// Believe a third son but have no info on him yet.
RWB married Robina Gardiner Kirk 20th June 1910 Dumfries, She died in August that year.
-In 1911 both brothers were living is a tenement in Mclean Street Govan. Joseph the tenant Mary
Welsh (wife?) & RWB a boarder. ( 3 persons -1911 Census) 
-Some time between the census and December 1911 they "acquired" a new family the Russell's both parent were noted as deceased on the marriage certificate United Free Church Tollcross Park minister, 8th December 1911 of Robert Welsh Russell to Margaret Hamilton B:1876 -D:1956 in Dennistoun.
-Robert Welsh Bisset death certificate confirms both his marriages to the above.
-Has two sons Confirmed 1917 & 1919, but another son & daughter unconfirmed. Was noted on a birth certificate RWR as a Sapper Royal Engineers 1917.   An Irish connection was attendance at a "School" in Artane late 1920,s early 1930;s details not to hand

Back to Joseph. By  1913 he had become Joseph Russell and married Mary Welsh by civil declaration in Blythswood 17th Sept 1913 with the same deceased parents as RW. Joseph Russell & Janet Russell nee Robson.
-Josephs Russell (the younger) death certificate 1939, confirms his marriage to Mary Welsh, and was witnessed by his "Son" RW Russell? Suspect this was his brother. Moral attitudes of the time, it was I venture a common thing to reinvent your self to move forward.

['Trish']

I am staggered by this, is there away of having a copy of the certificates? I can't thank you enough.
Regards Trish

['Trish']

Going through this info, I have death of RWBR in 1934 not 1951. I still question the differences between 'my' RWBR & the one mentioned above. I have 1871 Census with RWBR living in Glasgow with his mother. Without more proof I cannot accept that this is one & the same without seeing his death certificate.
The name Robina Gardner Kirk as yet is not in my family tree.
Regards Trish

[Sinann]

As I have said before, he worked as a railway guard, but the story goes that he went to Dublin in 1924 - where he was in the Irish Guards - Regimental Sergeant Major. 

Regimental Sergeant Major is a military rank isn't it?
Irish Guards is a British Army Regiment so was no longer in Dublin by 1924 but he could have joined them in Northern Ireland, it would take quite a few years of service to gain the rank of Regimental Sergeant Major.

['Trish']

My relationship is daughter in law to Maggie Hamilton's daughter Ellen. Yes I & my husband & sister in law have been researching for years, as Ellen was so secretive. Before Ellen died she gave me the names & birth dates of Maggie's siblings, 2 brothers & sister. Also Ellen's 3 brothers.
This is what I mean about conflicting evidence. Maggie's parents were Hugh Hamilton & Jane Jackson. RWBR's parents were Joseph Russell & Jane (Janet) Robertson. In the 1871 census they were living at 338 Duke St, Glasgow. I have that Joseph Russell was an iron turner. RWBR's sister Catherine was born c.1880.
I know there is something that made Ellen very secretive, so much so that she lied about her job & who her parents were. So I'm not saying they are not one & the same. I just need to try and work out all the conflicting evidence, which should point me in the right direction. Regards Trish

[Russell48]

i am looking for information on Ellen Hamilton Russell born in Glasgow 1921.  Ellen had three brothers, my father Herbert Alexander Bain Russell born 1915, Robert Welsh Russell born 1917 and William, not sure of his birth.  I am Herbert Russell's daughter.